Minor erdtree catacombs
Elden Ring
2019.05.27 07:50 jack0641 Elden Ring
This is the subreddit for the Elden Ring gaming community. Elden Ring is an action RPG which takes place in the Lands Between, sometime after the Shattering of the titular Elden Ring. Players must explore and fight their way through the vast open-world to unite all the shards, restore the Elden Ring, and become Elden Lord. Elden Ring was directed by Hidetaka Miyazaki and made in collaboration with George R. R. Martin. It was developed by FromSoft and published by Bandai Namco.
2023.03.26 08:28 Dryadversity The dialectic, depicted literally
 | Minor spoilers for the Placidusax fight. submitted by Dryadversity to Eldenring [link] [comments] Raya Lucaria's debate hall features a purple banner in the middle of its eastern wall. https://preview.redd.it/chxrqv5911qa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58c30436684b3abf7ce998fa3e2056ab3609e308 The first interpretation I heard for what the banner could mean was from greetthemoth, who suggested its purple coloring might signify the union of Rennala (blue) with Radagon (red). I later heard from Quelaag that the purple might be the result of a combination of the red and blue colors of the Cuckoo Knights. I believe she may have said something about the two cuckoos combining to form the Twinbird; in any case, I think this theory is likely. Further evidence for the cuckoo interpretation is the winged gargoyles on the left and right sides of the hall. After thinking a bit more about this, I realized that the room the purple banner is found in, the debate hall, is probably important. A debate is an interchange between two sides, kind of like red and blue mixing to create purple. It's also a combative interaction, similar to how the moon and Erdtree are sometimes portrayed as opposing forces. I developed a mental image of one side in the debate being represented by students wearing red, and the other side by students in blue. The product of the debate would be represented by violet, in between the opposing debate stands, and in the middle of the wall as the purple banner. https://preview.redd.it/s7aubcda11qa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=266145d58fd09a1ce3e1d60edf8c5246a8b3862c Finally, I concluded the significance goes one level further: the debate hall and the purple banner are also a representation of the dialectic, since the original meaning of the word was "debate". The dialectic is an idea in philosophy that two forces or ideas combat each other to create a "synthesis" (this is the word used in the most popular terminology), which is usually described as a position somewhere between the two. Again, the word originally just meant a debate (and still does in Greek philosophy), but it took on increasingly abstract meanings in German Idealist philosophy, for example in the theories of Hegel and Fichte. In the context of Elden Ring, the synthesis is purple, the Twinbird, the union of Radagon and Rennala, and so on. There are many other examples besides these. Since there is a somewhat adversarial connotation to the word, I think the idea of dialectics has something to do with the Crucible. This is because a crucible is, in one definition, a tool used to melt metal and combine things together; in another definition, it means a test of some kind. This might be related to why the violet banner also contains gold. Also, testing makes perfect sense in the setting of a debate hall, or schoolhouse classroom. Another example of dialectics in Japanese media is the spiral and anti-spiral conflict in the anime Gurren Lagann. I'm mentioning this because spirals are also a common symbol in Elden Ring, and may also represent the dialectic, in which case Gurren Lagann may have been an influence. The theorist Crunchy noticed that spirals are commonly used in Elden Ring to make reference to the Crucible. The same might also be true for dialectics; or if not, maybe the double-helix, if this is considered a different symbol than the spiral, is the symbol which is meant to depict the dialectic. There is in fact a glintstone spell that uses the double helix shape, called "shard spiral", which is used by some sorcerers in Raya Lucaria. (There is also a spell used by the miners that creates a spiral drill, and drills are a key motif in Gurren Lagann.) Furthermore, the Twinbird is associated with double-helices through its similarities with the twin-headed Placidusax, who is found with his necks crossing each other, in the start of a double-helix pattern. shard spiral One other thing I should mention is that all of the glintstone in Raya Lucaria is of the purple, gravity variety (which partly explains the alabaster lord). The floor of the debate hall is littered with purple glintstone. Given glintstone's connection to the intellect, this would further support the idea that a synthetic, holistic perspective, forged through disagreement and reconciliation, is what students and sorcerers should be aiming for. |
2023.03.25 11:04 jeanpaul_atreides Catacombs of Wrath trifecta
Some time ago I asked the community for some help on running Rise of the Runelords with 2e.
(original post). Thanks to everyone who answered.
We have been playing for 8 sessions and having a blast!
Yesterday evening, my players cleaned out the Catacombs of Wraths.
- one player drank the holy water of Lamashtu, voluntarily. He was intimidated into doing it by Erylium.
- a second one dipped his foot in the Minor Runewell, voluntarily, "just to experiment".
- a third one was thoroughly kissed by the Vargouille.
Any fun ideas on how to develop from these events?
I have mine of course, I'll just be in the corner rubbing my hands and cackling madly.
submitted by jeanpaul_atreides to Pathfinder2e [link] [comments]
(original post). Thanks to everyone who answered.
We have been playing for 8 sessions and having a blast!
Yesterday evening, my players cleaned out the Catacombs of Wraths.
- one player drank the holy water of Lamashtu, voluntarily. He was intimidated into doing it by Erylium.
- a second one dipped his foot in the Minor Runewell, voluntarily, "just to experiment".
- a third one was thoroughly kissed by the Vargouille.
Any fun ideas on how to develop from these events?
I have mine of course, I'll just be in the corner rubbing my hands and cackling madly.
2023.03.24 05:33 Key_Piano4447 Theory about the Elden Ring
So if your not already aware, in Farum Azula, there is a depiction of, what looks to be, an Elden Ring, but it looks different, there are more circles and curvy lines at the bottom, like it was spreading. I think this version of the Elden Ring is what it looked like before Marika removed The Rune of Death and created the Golden Order. This is more than likely, because Marika sent Malikieth to defeat the Gloam Eyed Queen and "seal away Destined Death". Evidence as to why I think this is a version of the Elden Ring with Destined Death in it, is because the lines at the bottom of it, remind me of the roots that are spreading from Goldwyn The Prince of Death. We see it spread from under the Erdtree Capital, to under Stormviel, and in every Catacomb in the entire game, all over the map.
I don't really have a way to end this. I was just watching a YouTube video, and he mentioned something about this, and I started making connections on my own
submitted by Key_Piano4447 to Eldenring [link] [comments]
I don't really have a way to end this. I was just watching a YouTube video, and he mentioned something about this, and I started making connections on my own
2023.03.24 03:35 Fuzzy-Practice-6119 Coop at RL125-150
Hi, I recently returned to Elden Ring. The first time I played it was in March 2022 which was during the peak of the coop. You got summoned anywhere (even minor catacombs) very quickly at any level.
I just got back to the game. I'm enjoying coop and trying out different builds against the bosses. I read that RL150 has a very active coop. So I'm working towards and started a new character (since my original characters are way too overleveled now). I only progress through the game whenever I feel I have out leveled an area. I already finished the Ranni, Fia and Rya questlines (and activated all the summoning pools along the way except Lake of Rot).
Coop is still very active at RL30 to 100, surprisingly. I must have been summoned for the Margit, Godrick, Radahn, and Rennala fights a hundred times. Sellia Crystal Cave and the Valiant Gargoyles were hotspots as well. However, now that I reached RL125. Summoning seems to have slowed down. To give you an idea, the last summoning pool I activated is the one outside Castle Sol. I did not progress yet to Consecrated Snowfields and Farum Azula.
The question, where are the most active summoning pools at RL150?
submitted by Fuzzy-Practice-6119 to Eldenring [link] [comments]
I just got back to the game. I'm enjoying coop and trying out different builds against the bosses. I read that RL150 has a very active coop. So I'm working towards and started a new character (since my original characters are way too overleveled now). I only progress through the game whenever I feel I have out leveled an area. I already finished the Ranni, Fia and Rya questlines (and activated all the summoning pools along the way except Lake of Rot).
Coop is still very active at RL30 to 100, surprisingly. I must have been summoned for the Margit, Godrick, Radahn, and Rennala fights a hundred times. Sellia Crystal Cave and the Valiant Gargoyles were hotspots as well. However, now that I reached RL125. Summoning seems to have slowed down. To give you an idea, the last summoning pool I activated is the one outside Castle Sol. I did not progress yet to Consecrated Snowfields and Farum Azula.
The question, where are the most active summoning pools at RL150?
2023.03.23 18:48 raci-le-lama How Death works in The Lands Between: Explained
 | Here's my understanding of how the concept of Death worked over time in the Lands Between. Some of it is speculation, but I'm pretty confident this is accurate. I haven't seen anything similar anywhere, so I figured I'd share my discoveries. So here we go: submitted by raci-le-lama to EldenRingLoreTalk [link] [comments] The Elden Ring seems to be the object which dictates the laws of the world, like the laws of physics and such. We can assume that at some point in the past, before the Golden Order, the Rune of Death was part of the Elden Ring (like the Elden Ring motif from Maliketh's boss room), and back then, Death worked normally. When a body expired, the soul would leave the body and go to the afterlife (Helphen?) or whatever, I'm not gonna dive into that. When the Erdtree was young and full of vigor, the people of Leyndell would harvest the sap of the Erdtree to create sacred tears that could heal all wounds and possibly restore youth. My main source for this hypothesis is the video by Tarnished Archeologist : Rituals of the Gracefully Born and the Gracelessly Accursed, Part II of Elden Ring's Cycle of Life. My interpretation of his observations is different from his, though. The descriptions of Warming Stone, Erdtree's Favor, and Flask of Wondrous Physics also support this.So, when people got old, they would travel to Leyndell to receive the blessing and restore their vigor. Evidence: the zombies on a pilgrimage to Leyndell. Or they could die a clean death. Zombies trying to get into Leyndell Then, at the start of the Golden Order, the Rune of Death was sealed, making Death impossible. Enia dialogue: “The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...”Everything was going well until the Erdtree stopped producing saps. We don't know when that happened, but the cause was most likely one of these events: - The Night of the Black Knives (Godwyn's corpse started rotting the roots of the Erdtree); - The Shattering (Golden Seed description: When the Elden Ring was shattered, these seeds flew from the Erdtree, scattering across the various lands, as if life itself knew that its end has come.); - The burning of the Erdtree (Source: Tarnished Archeologist video - Creeds of the Erdtree: Abundance, Faith, and Order); - Old age? So, now, the people of the Lands Between have no way of restoring their aging bodies, so they rot until they can no longer move. Eventually, their soul will move to the Erdtree. D, Hunter of the Dead: "But at least you did not join Those Who Live in Death. Your soul will return to the Erdtree, in time."This is also the beginning of Erdtree burial. Erdtree burial seems to be the process where a rotten body merges with Minor Erdtree roots. Proof that Erdtree burial happened late in history: the only Erdtree burials specified in-game happened after the Night of the Black Knives (Lhutel) and during the Shattering (Kristoff). There is no mention of Erdtree burials before that. Also, there are a bunch of coffins everywhere, meaning that merging with the roots hasn't always been the main death rite. Random coffin near Jarburg, Liurnia So that brings us to Those Who Live in Death. What are they? Deathroot description explains it pretty explicitly: “A source that gives rise to Those Who Live in Death. On the night of the dire plot the stolen Rune of Death enabled the first Death of a demigod. Later, the Rune of Death spread across the Lands Between through the underground roots of the Greattree, sprouting in the form of Deathroot.”So, to Live within Death is when the soul refuses to return to the Erdtree and instead stays inside the rotten body. Then, Deathroot allows the rotten body to rise again. By the way, I think the Mending Rune of the Death-Prince doesn't restore true Death, it just allows Those Who Live in Death to be in peace (until now they were hunted by the Golden Order) Mending Rune of the Death-Prince: Formed of the two hallowbrand half-wheels combined, it will embed the principle of life within Death into Order. The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.”Final thoughts: there doesn't seem to be an ending where we put the Rune of Death back into the Elden Ring, which means the world is still fucked after we finish the game (Erdtree is probably still dead, so still no magic sap for our zombie bois out there). I tried to keep this post short (even though I failed), so I didn't give as much evidence as I should have. If you have any questions, ask away. Edit: added the "soul returning to the Erdtree" part thanks to @crazy\bananzaz) comment |
2023.03.21 17:45 keeptrue Yet another (pre)-history of the Lands Between
I've been really enjoying studying up on Elden Ring lore for the past few weeks and thought it might be fun to write out my understanding of the (pre)-history of the Lands Betwen. Apologies for its length. Let me know if you have any thoughts!
The problem with Ancient Dragons is that they are made of stone, so their experience of time (if they experience time at all) is extremely slow compared to the biological experience of time. Things stagnate and cannot evolve (perhaps this is the origin of Rot). Ultimately, the Greater Will decides that this is untenable, and sends a meteor to destroy the Great Tree and Farum Azula. Placidusax and his now-crumbling home of Farum Azula vanish into their pocket dimension.
Numens are a long-lived, super intelligent, scientifically advanced race of beings. They are associated with Stars, Moons, silver, and artificial life. They universally have no interest in the nature worship of the tribal, indigenous population, and are primarily concerned with fate and artificial life. In their obsession with fate, they manage to seriously piss off the Greater Will, perhaps by murdering a demigod, so he turns them into Nightfolk that cannot go outside during daytime. The Nightfolk are forced to move underground and build Nokron, Nokstella, and the Unnamed Eternal City. Over time, the Nightfolk evolve into the Nox, but they never forget their hatred of the Greater Will.
Life on the surface continues to develop. Giants clear out most of the remaining dragons from the Mountaintops. Astrologers who live next to the Giants create schools of magic, primarily split into the Primal Current faction of Raya Lucaria and the Moon faction of the Carians. In the rest of the Lands Between, a castle culture develops that include Castle Redmane, Castle Morne, Stormveil, the Leyendell Fortified Manor, the Shaded Castle, and Castle Sol. This culture is shamanistic and worships the Great Tree, holding animals like lions and hawks sacred, and embracing of “devolution”, when humans would be born with bestial characteristics like feathers, scales, or claws.
Parallel to the shamanistic culture is the culture of the surface descendents of the Numen, who lived in Leyndell and Sellia. In Leyndell, one particular Numen named Marika develops an interest in the Golden Order, a small but fast-growing religious sect centered around the Erdtree and its blessings. Eventually, she becomes the leader of the Golden Order movement and finds her military support in the nearby Lord of the Fortified Manor. This Lord, of course, is Godfrey, who went by Hoarah Loux before defeating Serosh.
The Erdtree is at its healthiest during this period, dripping life-giving sap from its boughs. Devolution is no longer considered sacred and the misbegotten are treated as sub-human. Godfrey and Marika have their first child Godwyn, who turns out to be a smash hit: powerful with the charm, beauty, and charisma that befits a future Lord.
This is also the era of Colosseum combat, a ritual combat practice supported by Godfrey that brutally recreated the conquest of the Lands Between by the Golden Order crusade (think of the Hunger Games). The conquered peoples included the Fire Giants and the Snake and Bird worshippers of Ravenmount (now known as Mt Gelmir). Godfrey was a tribal warlord at heart, after all.
This Age does not last long, however. Grafted trees must ultimately be rejected by the root stump. The Erdtree begins to weaken. The next two children of Godfrey and Marika, Morgott and Mohg, are Omens, a sign that the Erdtree is waning and the Great Tree is waxing. The Age of Plenty ends with the First Burning of the Erdtree.
Quickly, things start going wrong. Marika and Radagon give birth to the twins Miquella and Malenia, but both are cursed. Marika begins to question the purpose behind the Golden Order, and ultimately decides that the Golden Order needs to be destroyed. Her greatest danger is Godwyn, the star prince, so she conspires with Ranni to steal a fragment of Death and murder Godwyn on the Night of Black Knives. However, Ranni double-crosses her and splits the Rune of Death in half, introducing Living in Death to the world. Things are really buggered now.
Marika may have hoped that Radagon would go along with this plan, but he does not. In the ensuing struggle, Marika takes the dramatic action of swinging a Numen Hammer at the Elden Ring. Radagon pops out immediately afterwards to attempt to repair the Elden Ring, loyal Champion of the Golden Order that he is (by the way, the fact that his immediate instinct was to try to reforge the Elden Ring speaks to his background as a laborer).
But it is too late and the damage is done. Golden Seeds fly out all over the Lands Between for the second time. The Elden Beast steps in and crucifies Marika. With her final moments of consciousness, as the vines are closing in to seal the Erdtree, Marika births her final daughter Melina, and sends her out of the Erdtree with a mission to burn down the Erdtree.
Miquella has a thought that perhaps he could help Godwyn by inducing a solar eclipse. Radahn obviously declines to cooperate, so Miquella asks Malenia to kill Radahn. This battle ends with the Bloom of the Scarlet Rot in Caelid. Meanwhile, Mohg the little pervert runs in while Malenia is gone to kidnap Miquella and take him back to his underground dungeon.
submitted by keeptrue to EldenRingLoreTalk [link] [comments]
Pre-history: the dinosaurs
First, there was the Age of the Great Tree. During this time, the dinosaurs (just kidding, Ancient Dragons) were in charge and Placidusax was the Elden Lord.The problem with Ancient Dragons is that they are made of stone, so their experience of time (if they experience time at all) is extremely slow compared to the biological experience of time. Things stagnate and cannot evolve (perhaps this is the origin of Rot). Ultimately, the Greater Will decides that this is untenable, and sends a meteor to destroy the Great Tree and Farum Azula. Placidusax and his now-crumbling home of Farum Azula vanish into their pocket dimension.
The Age of the Crucible
The destruction of the Great Tree begins the Age of the Crucible. The stump of the Great Tree begins sprouting new growth, along with the grafted Erdtree that was seeded by the meteor. Biological life develops in the Lands Between: humans, giants, modern dragons, ancestral followers. New Outer Gods appear as well: Sun, Moons, Stars, Rot, Flame. Some new life arrives: Numens.Numens are a long-lived, super intelligent, scientifically advanced race of beings. They are associated with Stars, Moons, silver, and artificial life. They universally have no interest in the nature worship of the tribal, indigenous population, and are primarily concerned with fate and artificial life. In their obsession with fate, they manage to seriously piss off the Greater Will, perhaps by murdering a demigod, so he turns them into Nightfolk that cannot go outside during daytime. The Nightfolk are forced to move underground and build Nokron, Nokstella, and the Unnamed Eternal City. Over time, the Nightfolk evolve into the Nox, but they never forget their hatred of the Greater Will.
Life on the surface continues to develop. Giants clear out most of the remaining dragons from the Mountaintops. Astrologers who live next to the Giants create schools of magic, primarily split into the Primal Current faction of Raya Lucaria and the Moon faction of the Carians. In the rest of the Lands Between, a castle culture develops that include Castle Redmane, Castle Morne, Stormveil, the Leyendell Fortified Manor, the Shaded Castle, and Castle Sol. This culture is shamanistic and worships the Great Tree, holding animals like lions and hawks sacred, and embracing of “devolution”, when humans would be born with bestial characteristics like feathers, scales, or claws.
Parallel to the shamanistic culture is the culture of the surface descendents of the Numen, who lived in Leyndell and Sellia. In Leyndell, one particular Numen named Marika develops an interest in the Golden Order, a small but fast-growing religious sect centered around the Erdtree and its blessings. Eventually, she becomes the leader of the Golden Order movement and finds her military support in the nearby Lord of the Fortified Manor. This Lord, of course, is Godfrey, who went by Hoarah Loux before defeating Serosh.
The Age of the Erdtree
The rebirth of Hoarah Loux as Godfrey marks the beginning of the Age of the Erdtree. He goes on to conquer essentially the entire Lands Between, symbolically pruning the growths out of the Great Tree stump that compete with the Erdtree. First to go are the Fire Giants, as their Flame of Ruin poses the greatest threat to the Erdtree. Godfrey and his Golden Army then systematically sweep through the Lands Between. In Castle Morne, Godfrey encounters fierce resistance led by a young laborer with Fire Giant ancestry named Radagon. He is so impressed with Radagon that he invites him to join his army.The Erdtree is at its healthiest during this period, dripping life-giving sap from its boughs. Devolution is no longer considered sacred and the misbegotten are treated as sub-human. Godfrey and Marika have their first child Godwyn, who turns out to be a smash hit: powerful with the charm, beauty, and charisma that befits a future Lord.
This is also the era of Colosseum combat, a ritual combat practice supported by Godfrey that brutally recreated the conquest of the Lands Between by the Golden Order crusade (think of the Hunger Games). The conquered peoples included the Fire Giants and the Snake and Bird worshippers of Ravenmount (now known as Mt Gelmir). Godfrey was a tribal warlord at heart, after all.
This Age does not last long, however. Grafted trees must ultimately be rejected by the root stump. The Erdtree begins to weaken. The next two children of Godfrey and Marika, Morgott and Mohg, are Omens, a sign that the Erdtree is waning and the Great Tree is waxing. The Age of Plenty ends with the First Burning of the Erdtree.
The Age of the Golden Order
After the first burning of the Erdtree, the Erdtree is replaced by the golden phantom we see in-game. Minor Erdtrees begin sprouting all over the Lands Between, protected by Avatars. Now that Godfrey has completed his conquest of the Lands Between, Marika has no use for such a brute. She removes grace from him and exiles him. Radagon is called back from Liurnia to marry (merge with?) Marika. Marika sends Maliketh to defeat the Gloam-Eyed Queen and seal away Death. She asks Radahn to stop the Stars, to stop the flow of time/fate. This begins the Age of the Golden Order.Quickly, things start going wrong. Marika and Radagon give birth to the twins Miquella and Malenia, but both are cursed. Marika begins to question the purpose behind the Golden Order, and ultimately decides that the Golden Order needs to be destroyed. Her greatest danger is Godwyn, the star prince, so she conspires with Ranni to steal a fragment of Death and murder Godwyn on the Night of Black Knives. However, Ranni double-crosses her and splits the Rune of Death in half, introducing Living in Death to the world. Things are really buggered now.
Marika may have hoped that Radagon would go along with this plan, but he does not. In the ensuing struggle, Marika takes the dramatic action of swinging a Numen Hammer at the Elden Ring. Radagon pops out immediately afterwards to attempt to repair the Elden Ring, loyal Champion of the Golden Order that he is (by the way, the fact that his immediate instinct was to try to reforge the Elden Ring speaks to his background as a laborer).
But it is too late and the damage is done. Golden Seeds fly out all over the Lands Between for the second time. The Elden Beast steps in and crucifies Marika. With her final moments of consciousness, as the vines are closing in to seal the Erdtree, Marika births her final daughter Melina, and sends her out of the Erdtree with a mission to burn down the Erdtree.
Miquella has a thought that perhaps he could help Godwyn by inducing a solar eclipse. Radahn obviously declines to cooperate, so Miquella asks Malenia to kill Radahn. This battle ends with the Bloom of the Scarlet Rot in Caelid. Meanwhile, Mohg the little pervert runs in while Malenia is gone to kidnap Miquella and take him back to his underground dungeon.
2023.03.19 22:45 Dryadversity The dual narrative of the Lake of Rot: Liquid gold, and the Ainsel River as a gold needle (+ other parallels between Ranni's and Millicent's quests)
Spoilers for Ranni's and Millicent's quests.
The dual narrative of the Lake of Rot
I'm guessing many of you have figured out the thematic connection between Ranni's quest and the Ainsel River, which her quest gives us a tour of. If not, it can be summarized like this: the word 'ainsel' means "myself". Ranni could be considered a selfish character; but more importantly, her character arc involves separating herself from the current age, her family, and friends. The Ainsel River is parallel to the Dark Path of the Empyrean, and its defining feature is differentiation. As I've said in a previous post, in some schools of psychology, differentiation is a key stage in psychosocial development, making the thematic signals of the Ainsel River even clearer.
https://preview.redd.it/idttdd8tmroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=893de3f02389c46c3566d584f375f8331c053ccf
Since Ranni's quest involves traversing the entire length of the Ainsel River (it starts at its source and ends with a shallow puddle in Astel's boss room) it's easy to assume this venture exclusively concerns and comments on Ranni's character—which makes the placement of the Lake of Rot a bit hard to explain. At one point I viewed the Lake of Rot as something like a disruption in Ranni's quest. I also considered that maybe the developers just needed somewhere to place the culture of the rot god, and thought the Ainsel River would be a fitting complementary habitat (since lakes and rivers go together). Another potential reason for putting the Lake of Rot here is that it's directly below Raya Lucaria, and thus provides an explanation for why Liurnia is sinking (this is mentioned in the Liurnia map description).
A more thematic explanation for the Lake of Rot in Ranni's quest is that it's there to provide adversity to Ranni in her narrative. For one thing, the baleful shadow is colored red and black—like Destined Death, but also like the Lake of Rot. Furthermore, while Ranni's story is a social one (separation from her acquaintances), I also think it's psychological, and that the journey from the Ainsel River through the Lake of Rot, to the fight with Astel and up to the Moonlight Altar, is meant to depict another parallel to the Dark Path of the Empyrean: the Dark Night of the Soul. Except, since Ranni actually has an affinity with night, the end of her heroine's journey is not the emergence of the sun at dawn, but a night sky illuminated by a blindingly luminescent moon.
Eventually, I learned of yet another reason for this placement of the Lake of Rot, which I believe is among the most important (both in the game's narrative, and for this post), and is probably the original reason for inserting the Lake of Rot between the two ends of the Ainsel River. I learned of this from a post by Nihlus11, who says that both the Lake of Rot and the Ainsel River serve as symbolic commentary on Malenia's and Millicent's stories.
If I understand it, their argument is that the Ainsel River combats the amnesic effects of the scarlet rot in the lake by introducing fresh water to the lake, and thereby maintaining memory. This is because memory is the "sense of self", which Millicent mentions in her dialogue in the Prayer Room; and sense of self, again, is symbolized by the Ainsel River, meaning that the river also represents memory. They clarify in their post that it's the unalloyed gold needle which is responsible for preserving Millicent's memory, since it is also what fights the rotting sickness that causes Millicent's amnesia. This summary should suffice for now; though I recommend reading their post in full. It's called "[Theory] Misinterpretations of Millicent's quest and why a seemingly arbitrary quest reward is crucial". (The most relevant part is in the comments.)
https://preview.redd.it/dvbmk2qumroa1.jpg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a00ece175876dce23859df1d8a2a9c04cfaf480f
The narrative duality of the Lake of Rot is the base of the theory which I'd like to expand upon in this post.
While I was writing my post on Astel's boss room, I had an idea for how the Lake of Rot might be further integrated into Ranni's story. Ranni wishes to upend the current order, and is a character who symbolizes change, and thus chaos. While she has various motivations for wanting to destroy the order, e.g. not wanting to be a puppet of the Two Fingers, another reason might be that she views it as static and unproductive. One of the major ideas communicated by gold in Elden Ring is eternity (since gold is resistant to tarnishing). But an eternal, unending order is prone to stagnation—which makes it susceptible to rotting, since rot is more likely to grow in still, stagnant waters.
I was led by this train of thought into some hypothesizing on the interchangeability of colors in Elden Ring. Red, as the game suggests, is primordial gold. Originally I thought it meant that primordial gold was red-tinged gold, based on the description for Ordovis's sword. However, there is a stronger argument to be made that primordial gold is just red; evidence includes gold nanoparticles appearing red, and the alchemical view that red was the true color of gold.
If red is in fact gold, and both rot and the current order represent stagnation, then the red Lake of Rot could be replaced with a lake of liquid gold, and the meaning of the trek through the lake would be preserved. In this alternative universe where the lake is gold, an Elden Ring theorist could make the reasonable argument that the colors are reversible in the opposite direction; that the gold of the lake could be replaced with scarlet rot, without the meanings of Ranni's or Millicent's quests fundamentally changing. (I find this kind of funny because I've just been explaining how the Lake of Rot signifies stagnation, i.e. things staying the same, being preserved, etc.)
This was going to be a major topic in this post—how certain colors in Elden Ring might be interchangeable, and how this could potentially be used as a tool for theorizing. For example, imagining one color as another (silver as blue) might illuminate a second meaning that was obscured by the color displayed to us.
However, I found this was actually not necessary, at least with respect to the Lake of Rot. The red in the lake doesn't have to be imagined as gold, because it already contains it.
https://preview.redd.it/vwsf95hymroa1.jpg?width=1912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb874fb80f21d3e1c125e98ac8992d8fa8c83c1d
The double narrative of the Lake of Rot is communicated through a duality of color. While both gold and rot can be viewed as representing stagnation, and thus the antagonist of both Millicent's and Ranni's stories, the more appropriate colors for each character are both included in the lake, mixed together like molten metal in a crucible.
A note on another visual feature of the Lake of Rot: Since the Lake of Rot contains gold, this could in turn explain the black circles on its surface; they might be gold that's tarnished. They also resemble black holes, like the ones used by the alabaster lord in this area. Or, they might be intended to remind us of the small holes found in the disintegrating weaponry found throughout the game, e.g. the swords in Stormveil Castle.
A second connecting element to Ranni's quest in the Lake of Rot is the presence of the rot basilisks. Of any character, basilisks are linked most strongly to Godwyn, since his appearance in Deeproot Depths resembles one, and is surrounded by them. In turn, the basilisks themselves appear to have taken on some of Godwyn's features, if they are not inborn traits; I am referring to the more obviously lidded eyes (when compared to the basilisks from the previous Souls games), which are visible on Godwyn's Stormveil growth.
So the basilisks who represent Godwyn the Golden, and sprew tarnished gold smoke, are found inhabiting a lake containing liquid gold. Godwyn, of course, was assassinated by Ranni in the Night of the Black Knives, and represents the order of gold which Ranni opposes. So you could say that by killing the rot basilisks, you are killing mini-Godwyns, and reenacting the Knight of the Black Knives.
The next thought I had has less to do with Ranni's quest and more to do with Millicent's. As Nihlus11 seemed to imply in their post, the Ainsel River is to the Lake of Rot what the unalloyed needle is to Millicent's body. I believe this is represented by the shapes of these geographic features; that the Ainsel River is the needle, and the Lake of Rot is blood. Compared to a lake, a river is long and slender, like a needle. I acknowledge that the shape of the Ainsel River as a whole is quite irregular, but the stretch of river leading to the dam is narrow and more easily comparable to a needle. Also, the angle of the stream on the map is pretty much the same as the angle of needle, as depicted in its icon.
If the Ainsel River represents an unalloyed gold needle, though, this might oppose the interpretation that the black spots are tarnished gold, since unalloyed gold shouldn't tarnish. Unless the reason the tarnishing occurs is that the unalloyed gold is mixing with rot, and thus becoming alloyed?
As for the Lake of Rot, perhaps it's intended to visually parallel a puddle of blood, since that's what the needle must contact to be effective?
There are multiple sites along the Ainsel River that are inhabited by flying golden insects. These sites are correlated with ant populations, but the only consistent association is with the red corpses—which are nonetheless usually found among ants and ant eggs. Edit: I recently found that all of the sites containing the bugs have water, in addition to red corpses. There are sections with red corpses without water, that are right next to sites containing the insects, and that do not have the insects extending into these areas, which makes it seem like the insects require water and cannot stray far from it. So the consistent requirements are water + corpses.
golden insects in the Ainsel River (if you enlarge the pic you can see their anatomy better)
There are three golden-insect-containing sites in the Ainsel River. Again, all of these locations have red corpses and water. One is in the tunnel between the Ainsel River Well Depths site of grace, and the Ainsel River Sluice Gate; this location has a single ant, and no eggs. A second is at the start of the path that leads to the cliff overlooking the Lake of Rot; this site has ants and ant eggs. The third is the stream which I have analogized to a needle; the entrance to this area has ant eggs, but no ants.
Sites with golden insects I marked with the fire symbol; the rabbit symbol on the right indicates a site with ants and red corpses, but no golden insects.
I find it interesting, and persuasive, that the only place these golden insects can be found is in the Ainsel River. (This is the only place I've found them, at least.) More specifically, two of these three locations are located right next to the Lake of Rot: one is the path to its formal entrance, the other is the area before the path leading to the overlook.
It's also intriguing that the number of these insects varies per site; there are more of them, by far, in the tunnel leading to the Lake of Rot, than in the other two locations. They populate the entire length of the tunnel, almost like they're lighting the way and guiding you toward the lake. Again, to my knowledge, this quantity of golden insects is not found anywhere else in the Ainsel River, or in the game.
The dense presence of these bugs in the tunnel leading to the Lake of Rot might be significant for more than one reason. For one, the combination of golden insects with blue water is an example of blue and gold coloring, which is one of the more important and common pairings in the game. Second, it might have something to do with the silver fireflies found on the end of the tunnel closer to the lake (the golden insects have a few similarities with fireflies, though they are visibly distinct from the gold firefly collectibles).
Most important is that it gives credence to the theory presented in this post—that the Ainsel River, and especially the stream leading to the elevator before the Lake of Rot—is symbolically equivalent to the unalloyed gold needle. Perhaps the insects are responsible for the gold coloring in the lake, by laying their eggs on the still waters? (It could also have to do with the golden Numen's runes which are commonly found on ants. Additionally, in Elden Ring, eggs themselves have a notable association with gold, e.g. Rennala's amber egg.)
Retroactive insertion: After submitting this post, I made another submission on what kind of insect the golden bugs might be. I eventually found the answer, by trying repeatedly to get closer pictures.
https://preview.redd.it/zheyo81b7uoa1.jpg?width=1911&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4e63683419092aa04ca68877c687824a0620a4d
The insects have stingers, and drooping abdomens which appear somewhat engorged like the honeypot ants. I am fully confident that the insects are smaller, golden versions of the ants, which also have wings and stingers. This makes them very similar to bees, which I think is intentional given the honeypot ants' association with honey, and honey's golden color. This provides even more support for the view that the stream leading to the Lake of Rot is meant to parallel the unalloyed gold needle, because not only are the insects in the tunnel gold, they also have stingers. A gold stinger is the same as a gold needle.
(It's also possible they're meant to represent Millicent and the valkyries themselves. In Norse mythology, valkyries are winged entities associated with gold; this is likely the inspiration behind Malenia's armor being gold and her character's connection to gold in general, in addition to the in-universe connection with unalloyed gold helping to cure scarlet rot. As for the stingers, these could be compared to the swords used by the valkyries.)
Moving on, here's another idea on the gold needle and Ainsel River: While 'ain' means "own" in the Scots language, it actually means "eye" in some Middle Eastern languages, and is a given name. I think this is a double meaning, and references the (cut) insertion of Miquella's needle into the player character's eye when choosing to rid themselves of the Flame of Frenzy. Again, this is cut content, but I think the fact that you can only use the needle in the eye of Farum Azula's storm is like a symbolic preservation of this cut content. I wrote a post about this needle and eye symbolism which I'll reference below.
The last topic I wanted to discuss with regard to the Lake of Rot concerns the penultimate stage of Ranni's journey—and Millicent's as well, if it is accepted that Ranni's quest is also a story about Millicent. It has to do with the ecology of Astel's boss room, which as mentioned I have previously written about.
https://preview.redd.it/qgk2biu2nroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7daaa11111f44bd4207355d649f564bf3c3eb165
The scarlet rot in Astel's boss room appears to be purified. I listed a number of theories explaining how this might have occurred. There are two that I think are most likely. 1) Astel resembles a great dragonfly (Sinister Stromboli notes that he has 6 fingers like the dragons), and great dragonflies are used to make poison antidotes, so Astel may have purified the scarlet rot. 2) The drippings on the scarlet rot resemble dew, and the fungi look like they're melting. The first of these relates to the dewkissed herba, and the second relates to the melted mushrooms. Both of these are used to craft soap, and both only grow "in and near" the false night of the Eternal Cities. Since the stars of the Eternal Cities are required to grow these crops, and they are used to make soap, the stars themselves might have cleansing properties.
On a thematic level, the purification of the scarlet rot in Astel's room seems to reflect the cleansing or elimination of kegare, and along with it, the following themes: progress over stagnation, differentiation, finding one's true self (by killing the vices that obscure it), and the triumph of the self over the forces that seek to dissolve it, e.g. death and memory loss.
Something I was originally unsure of, was if this cleansing was primarily part of Millicent's quest, or if it was also important to Ranni's. Personally I think Ranni's victory is communicated just as well by the ascension to the Moonlight Altar after defeating Astel. So if the elevator to the Moonlight Altar already signifies Ranni's successful character development, what role does the purification of rot play in this conclusion?
https://preview.redd.it/6806mtl3nroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e77d2d701f46f1910a0dc39dd4f45b1e99ed9b05
One thought I just had is that Ranni seems to be easily disgusted; she has a noticeably aloof and condescending tone. Her gestures, namely the steepled positioning of her hands, arguably gives off a feeling of elitism as well—though this is more subjective (and maybe it's just meant to reflect her scheming tendencies). She lives in what could be called an "ivory tower", since it's filled with books, and many of these rises are called towers explicitly. Her referring to the Two Fingers as "that thing" also indicates disgust (understandably enough, so this doesn't really say much about her general disgust sensitivity). If rot is kegare, then perhaps it's not surprising that a character high in trait disgust would seek to purify it.
Second—and I think this is the more likely explanation—it might have to do with the Age of the Stars. If the theory I presented about stars having purifying properties is correct, then Ranni might be trying to cleanse the current order by exposing it to starlight. Maybe this was the plan, rather than just separating herself from the order? Even if separation was the primary ambition, though, this is still arguably a method of sanitation, since isolation, i.e. quarantine, is also effective against germs and the spread of infection.
Some counterevidence for both of these theories is that Ranni seems to imply the order can't be eliminated—only moved far away, "beneath our feet." (You could say this is another association with cleanliness, since we use our feet to walk on the ground, and dirt.) I believe this ambition is actually represented on the Moonlight Altar, through the relationship between the moon seen here and the minor erdtree, which is placed conspicuously close to the moon and is actually being struck by its moon beams. I argued in my recent post that this symbolizes how even the Erdtree would become "minor" in the new order. However, I also entertained the idea that the moon beams were cutting the minor erdtree down or replacing it, so this might be compatible with the sanitation idea after all.
You can see how the moon beam almost appears to replace the trunk of the minor erdtree, from certain angles.
Color thoughts: The synthesis of Ranni's and Millicent's quests ties into the consistent purple and red+blue color patterns in, adjacent to, and above the Lake of Rot. (Or, this narrative synthesis might be what these coloring pairings were intended to hint at.) You could easily make the case that the red of the Lake of Rot is Millicent, and the blue of the Ainsel River is Ranni. The flowing of the blue water into the red lake would (color-theoretically) make purple. Another interpretation is that the blue river represents mind and memory, which resists rot's red, physical decay of the body and brain.
A return to the topic of the golden ants:
There's something similar to these golden ants in the Dung Eater's room in the Roundtable Hold. At first I thought they were the same as the ones in Ainsel, but it became clear they're not as well-defined; unlike the ants, you can't see their wings, or really any distinct anatomy. Then I noticed that the buzzing sound (which is present near the golden ants as well as in the Dung Eater's room), was more likely coming from black flies, which I hadn't noticed since they blend into the darkly lit room. So I don't know if these small golden lights are insects at all; if they're not, then I'm not sure why they are only found in the Dung Eater's corner. Maybe they have something to do with the sun emblem on his armor?
I used motion blur because it makes the lights/bugs easier to see; that's why the picture looks smudged.
More parallels between Millicent's and Ranni's quests, beyond the Ainsel River
There are a few other patterns connecting Millicent's and Ranni's quests. I'll discuss the simpler of the two first, as it won't take as long to explain. This pattern is the pairing of rot with cold (either snow or ice), and the purification of the former by the latter. The second is the theme of severance.
1.) In the above text I interpreted the journey through the Ainsel River as a depiction of both Ranni's and Millicent's character arcs; but this same imagery and symbolism can be found where Millicent completes her quest. Millicent dies inside the Haligtree, where another waterfall of rot is found, along with snow or fungal spores/ash resembling snow. This is part of the drainage channel, which purifies the rot and funnels out fresh water. In my recent post on Elphael, I talked about how this combination of rot and ice is a reference to the poison that drips from the icy rivers in Norse mythology, which are called Élivágar.
https://preview.redd.it/y3jaxms6nroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=198d5ef7e58cb8ab90d3ca90b5f01e177b6855f4
Now I can see that all of these motifs—cold mixed with rot, and purification—are found in the Ainsel River and Lake of Rot as well. First, you could imagine that by moving through the Ainsel River—which in a sense she does, in her mini-doll form, and by talking to you at checkpoints throughout your trek—Ranni is freezing and neutralizing the rot. Second, the point of entry to the Ainsel River, or at least the one that is relevant to Ranni's quest, is the waygate in Renna's rise. As the theorist Queelag pointed out, 'renna' means "to melt". She likens the Ainsel River to the melted ice of the snow witch, who Ranni emulates. So again, just as in the inside of the Haligtree and drainage channel, ice and snow serve to contrast and combat rot.
One more thing on this point: In Norse mythology, the poison dripping from Élivágar creates Ymir, who is the first giant or jötunn. And in Elden Ring, both rot waterfalls have giants at their bottom. In the Haligtree, these giants are Malenia and Miquella's Haligtree form; in the Lake of Rot, these are the statues of the ancient dynast holding the tablet—who I believe may have been a troll, based on the similarities pointed out to me between the trolls and the depiction of this figure.
2.) Now I'll discuss the second theme of severance. Ranni wants to kill the Two Fingers so that they cannot "pull her strings" and control her like a puppet. Seluvis tries to do the same thing; he attempts to turn her into a puppet, and this might be why she reacts so violently to his plot, killing both of you in retaliation. The weapon she uses to kill the puppeteer and cut her strings is the Fingerslayer Blade, which has a name noticeably similar to the Finger Severer, which is a multiplayer item.
Millicent's story is also one of separation. To start with, I should mention the popular theory that Millicent is a component of Malenia's self—more specifically, the pride she sacrificed when facing Radahn. If true, this would make Millicent another part of Malenia that was severed from her, much like her arm. Further evidence for this theory is that there are five valkyries—the same number of fingers on a hand, which Malenia had taken from her; so the theory is that the five sisters are Malenia's five severed fingers. (I heard of this theory on the hand of Malenia from Gideon the Half-Knowing in one of his episodes of Elden Kings.)
So already, Millicent is analogous to a severed limb or finger of Malenia. But the idea of severance manifests in other parts of her quest, too. If you choose to side with Millicent against her sisters, then Millicent chooses to die, retaining her individuality against the collective nature of rot which consumes Malenia and the other valkyries—thus severing her ties with them. Recall the communal nature of rot, e.g. in the Kindred of Rot's exultation. (Also, killing your family would be an example of "cutting ties", which is also an important part in Ranni's story.) If you choose the opposite route and side against Millicent, you are also continuing the pattern of severance: you are cutting the bond of trust that connects you to her, and that you have cultivated throughout her arc. (You also symbolically sever her hand as well, since you receive her prosthesis after killing her.)
https://preview.redd.it/0x203fr7nroa1.jpg?width=332&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27f03d4e75fcc57d7991437a3f4f6cd666647693
Gowry speaks of severance explicitly, when he implores you:
"Sever that trust. Nurtured by betrayal, her bud will flower most vividly."
Gowry analogizes this act of severing to pruning a flower. If you kill Gowry, he says, "O Millicent, my daughter... Who would prune your sapling flesh?". In my view, Gowry sees Millicent as a primary, central flower, in relation to auxiliary growths representing (a) her family, or (b) her weaknesses as a warrior.
To address the first part: remember that Gowry favors Millicent. He says she may "outshine her sisters", and seems to think she might become more powerful than Malenia, since he says Millicent was "so close to becoming the finest of flowers." So it's possible that this pruning of Millicent, i.e. her death, is actually the clipping of the other, lesser buds from the flower (her siblings and Malenia), thus allowing the soil's nutrients to empower and nourish Millicent alone. This is in turn analogous to the dominance of one sprout over the others in tree resprouting, which the Tarnished Archaeologist has theorized about.
The second interpretation is simpler, as in this view the flower is one character (Millicent), and the stems connecting to the ancillary buds and branches represent the trust that is holding her back from becoming an effective warrior. A warrior, after all, is more effective at killing when not inhibited by compassion. Moreover, in Norse mythology, the valkyries are agents of death.
Alternatively, a hybrid interpretation that takes both the family and trust angles into account, is that the buds to be pruned are the people she's formed relationships with, and that the stems connecting to those people are her trust in them—i.e. the relations themselves. Thus, what must be severed is her bonds with her family and friends. (But if this were so, shouldn't Gowry view being "abandoned" by Malenia and Millicent as a good thing, and not something to despair over?)
Link for the thumbnail: https://imgur.com/a/nAWk1Pv
References:
-My post on the ecology of Astel's area: "Theories on the ecology and purity of Astel's boss room"
-Post on (partially about) the symbolism of the Moonlight Altar and minor erdtree: "The origins of the Dark Moon, dependence and independence of the moons, and more Moonlight Altar analysis"
-Post about my original theory on the golden insects being aphids: "Insect classification: the golden bugs in the Ainsel River"
-Post about Miquella's needle and the eye of the storm: "Why Miquella's needle can only be used in Placidusax's arena, and how this relates to Malenia's Waterfowl Dance"
submitted by Dryadversity to Eldenring [link] [comments]
The dual narrative of the Lake of Rot
I'm guessing many of you have figured out the thematic connection between Ranni's quest and the Ainsel River, which her quest gives us a tour of. If not, it can be summarized like this: the word 'ainsel' means "myself". Ranni could be considered a selfish character; but more importantly, her character arc involves separating herself from the current age, her family, and friends. The Ainsel River is parallel to the Dark Path of the Empyrean, and its defining feature is differentiation. As I've said in a previous post, in some schools of psychology, differentiation is a key stage in psychosocial development, making the thematic signals of the Ainsel River even clearer.
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Since Ranni's quest involves traversing the entire length of the Ainsel River (it starts at its source and ends with a shallow puddle in Astel's boss room) it's easy to assume this venture exclusively concerns and comments on Ranni's character—which makes the placement of the Lake of Rot a bit hard to explain. At one point I viewed the Lake of Rot as something like a disruption in Ranni's quest. I also considered that maybe the developers just needed somewhere to place the culture of the rot god, and thought the Ainsel River would be a fitting complementary habitat (since lakes and rivers go together). Another potential reason for putting the Lake of Rot here is that it's directly below Raya Lucaria, and thus provides an explanation for why Liurnia is sinking (this is mentioned in the Liurnia map description).
A more thematic explanation for the Lake of Rot in Ranni's quest is that it's there to provide adversity to Ranni in her narrative. For one thing, the baleful shadow is colored red and black—like Destined Death, but also like the Lake of Rot. Furthermore, while Ranni's story is a social one (separation from her acquaintances), I also think it's psychological, and that the journey from the Ainsel River through the Lake of Rot, to the fight with Astel and up to the Moonlight Altar, is meant to depict another parallel to the Dark Path of the Empyrean: the Dark Night of the Soul. Except, since Ranni actually has an affinity with night, the end of her heroine's journey is not the emergence of the sun at dawn, but a night sky illuminated by a blindingly luminescent moon.
Eventually, I learned of yet another reason for this placement of the Lake of Rot, which I believe is among the most important (both in the game's narrative, and for this post), and is probably the original reason for inserting the Lake of Rot between the two ends of the Ainsel River. I learned of this from a post by Nihlus11, who says that both the Lake of Rot and the Ainsel River serve as symbolic commentary on Malenia's and Millicent's stories.
If I understand it, their argument is that the Ainsel River combats the amnesic effects of the scarlet rot in the lake by introducing fresh water to the lake, and thereby maintaining memory. This is because memory is the "sense of self", which Millicent mentions in her dialogue in the Prayer Room; and sense of self, again, is symbolized by the Ainsel River, meaning that the river also represents memory. They clarify in their post that it's the unalloyed gold needle which is responsible for preserving Millicent's memory, since it is also what fights the rotting sickness that causes Millicent's amnesia. This summary should suffice for now; though I recommend reading their post in full. It's called "[Theory] Misinterpretations of Millicent's quest and why a seemingly arbitrary quest reward is crucial". (The most relevant part is in the comments.)
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The narrative duality of the Lake of Rot is the base of the theory which I'd like to expand upon in this post.
While I was writing my post on Astel's boss room, I had an idea for how the Lake of Rot might be further integrated into Ranni's story. Ranni wishes to upend the current order, and is a character who symbolizes change, and thus chaos. While she has various motivations for wanting to destroy the order, e.g. not wanting to be a puppet of the Two Fingers, another reason might be that she views it as static and unproductive. One of the major ideas communicated by gold in Elden Ring is eternity (since gold is resistant to tarnishing). But an eternal, unending order is prone to stagnation—which makes it susceptible to rotting, since rot is more likely to grow in still, stagnant waters.
I was led by this train of thought into some hypothesizing on the interchangeability of colors in Elden Ring. Red, as the game suggests, is primordial gold. Originally I thought it meant that primordial gold was red-tinged gold, based on the description for Ordovis's sword. However, there is a stronger argument to be made that primordial gold is just red; evidence includes gold nanoparticles appearing red, and the alchemical view that red was the true color of gold.
If red is in fact gold, and both rot and the current order represent stagnation, then the red Lake of Rot could be replaced with a lake of liquid gold, and the meaning of the trek through the lake would be preserved. In this alternative universe where the lake is gold, an Elden Ring theorist could make the reasonable argument that the colors are reversible in the opposite direction; that the gold of the lake could be replaced with scarlet rot, without the meanings of Ranni's or Millicent's quests fundamentally changing. (I find this kind of funny because I've just been explaining how the Lake of Rot signifies stagnation, i.e. things staying the same, being preserved, etc.)
This was going to be a major topic in this post—how certain colors in Elden Ring might be interchangeable, and how this could potentially be used as a tool for theorizing. For example, imagining one color as another (silver as blue) might illuminate a second meaning that was obscured by the color displayed to us.
However, I found this was actually not necessary, at least with respect to the Lake of Rot. The red in the lake doesn't have to be imagined as gold, because it already contains it.
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The double narrative of the Lake of Rot is communicated through a duality of color. While both gold and rot can be viewed as representing stagnation, and thus the antagonist of both Millicent's and Ranni's stories, the more appropriate colors for each character are both included in the lake, mixed together like molten metal in a crucible.
A note on another visual feature of the Lake of Rot: Since the Lake of Rot contains gold, this could in turn explain the black circles on its surface; they might be gold that's tarnished. They also resemble black holes, like the ones used by the alabaster lord in this area. Or, they might be intended to remind us of the small holes found in the disintegrating weaponry found throughout the game, e.g. the swords in Stormveil Castle.
A second connecting element to Ranni's quest in the Lake of Rot is the presence of the rot basilisks. Of any character, basilisks are linked most strongly to Godwyn, since his appearance in Deeproot Depths resembles one, and is surrounded by them. In turn, the basilisks themselves appear to have taken on some of Godwyn's features, if they are not inborn traits; I am referring to the more obviously lidded eyes (when compared to the basilisks from the previous Souls games), which are visible on Godwyn's Stormveil growth.
So the basilisks who represent Godwyn the Golden, and sprew tarnished gold smoke, are found inhabiting a lake containing liquid gold. Godwyn, of course, was assassinated by Ranni in the Night of the Black Knives, and represents the order of gold which Ranni opposes. So you could say that by killing the rot basilisks, you are killing mini-Godwyns, and reenacting the Knight of the Black Knives.
The next thought I had has less to do with Ranni's quest and more to do with Millicent's. As Nihlus11 seemed to imply in their post, the Ainsel River is to the Lake of Rot what the unalloyed needle is to Millicent's body. I believe this is represented by the shapes of these geographic features; that the Ainsel River is the needle, and the Lake of Rot is blood. Compared to a lake, a river is long and slender, like a needle. I acknowledge that the shape of the Ainsel River as a whole is quite irregular, but the stretch of river leading to the dam is narrow and more easily comparable to a needle. Also, the angle of the stream on the map is pretty much the same as the angle of needle, as depicted in its icon.
If the Ainsel River represents an unalloyed gold needle, though, this might oppose the interpretation that the black spots are tarnished gold, since unalloyed gold shouldn't tarnish. Unless the reason the tarnishing occurs is that the unalloyed gold is mixing with rot, and thus becoming alloyed?
As for the Lake of Rot, perhaps it's intended to visually parallel a puddle of blood, since that's what the needle must contact to be effective?
There are multiple sites along the Ainsel River that are inhabited by flying golden insects. These sites are correlated with ant populations, but the only consistent association is with the red corpses—which are nonetheless usually found among ants and ant eggs. Edit: I recently found that all of the sites containing the bugs have water, in addition to red corpses. There are sections with red corpses without water, that are right next to sites containing the insects, and that do not have the insects extending into these areas, which makes it seem like the insects require water and cannot stray far from it. So the consistent requirements are water + corpses.
golden insects in the Ainsel River (if you enlarge the pic you can see their anatomy better)
There are three golden-insect-containing sites in the Ainsel River. Again, all of these locations have red corpses and water. One is in the tunnel between the Ainsel River Well Depths site of grace, and the Ainsel River Sluice Gate; this location has a single ant, and no eggs. A second is at the start of the path that leads to the cliff overlooking the Lake of Rot; this site has ants and ant eggs. The third is the stream which I have analogized to a needle; the entrance to this area has ant eggs, but no ants.
Sites with golden insects I marked with the fire symbol; the rabbit symbol on the right indicates a site with ants and red corpses, but no golden insects.
I find it interesting, and persuasive, that the only place these golden insects can be found is in the Ainsel River. (This is the only place I've found them, at least.) More specifically, two of these three locations are located right next to the Lake of Rot: one is the path to its formal entrance, the other is the area before the path leading to the overlook.
It's also intriguing that the number of these insects varies per site; there are more of them, by far, in the tunnel leading to the Lake of Rot, than in the other two locations. They populate the entire length of the tunnel, almost like they're lighting the way and guiding you toward the lake. Again, to my knowledge, this quantity of golden insects is not found anywhere else in the Ainsel River, or in the game.
The dense presence of these bugs in the tunnel leading to the Lake of Rot might be significant for more than one reason. For one, the combination of golden insects with blue water is an example of blue and gold coloring, which is one of the more important and common pairings in the game. Second, it might have something to do with the silver fireflies found on the end of the tunnel closer to the lake (the golden insects have a few similarities with fireflies, though they are visibly distinct from the gold firefly collectibles).
Most important is that it gives credence to the theory presented in this post—that the Ainsel River, and especially the stream leading to the elevator before the Lake of Rot—is symbolically equivalent to the unalloyed gold needle. Perhaps the insects are responsible for the gold coloring in the lake, by laying their eggs on the still waters? (It could also have to do with the golden Numen's runes which are commonly found on ants. Additionally, in Elden Ring, eggs themselves have a notable association with gold, e.g. Rennala's amber egg.)
Retroactive insertion: After submitting this post, I made another submission on what kind of insect the golden bugs might be. I eventually found the answer, by trying repeatedly to get closer pictures.
https://preview.redd.it/zheyo81b7uoa1.jpg?width=1911&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4e63683419092aa04ca68877c687824a0620a4d
The insects have stingers, and drooping abdomens which appear somewhat engorged like the honeypot ants. I am fully confident that the insects are smaller, golden versions of the ants, which also have wings and stingers. This makes them very similar to bees, which I think is intentional given the honeypot ants' association with honey, and honey's golden color. This provides even more support for the view that the stream leading to the Lake of Rot is meant to parallel the unalloyed gold needle, because not only are the insects in the tunnel gold, they also have stingers. A gold stinger is the same as a gold needle.
(It's also possible they're meant to represent Millicent and the valkyries themselves. In Norse mythology, valkyries are winged entities associated with gold; this is likely the inspiration behind Malenia's armor being gold and her character's connection to gold in general, in addition to the in-universe connection with unalloyed gold helping to cure scarlet rot. As for the stingers, these could be compared to the swords used by the valkyries.)
Moving on, here's another idea on the gold needle and Ainsel River: While 'ain' means "own" in the Scots language, it actually means "eye" in some Middle Eastern languages, and is a given name. I think this is a double meaning, and references the (cut) insertion of Miquella's needle into the player character's eye when choosing to rid themselves of the Flame of Frenzy. Again, this is cut content, but I think the fact that you can only use the needle in the eye of Farum Azula's storm is like a symbolic preservation of this cut content. I wrote a post about this needle and eye symbolism which I'll reference below.
The last topic I wanted to discuss with regard to the Lake of Rot concerns the penultimate stage of Ranni's journey—and Millicent's as well, if it is accepted that Ranni's quest is also a story about Millicent. It has to do with the ecology of Astel's boss room, which as mentioned I have previously written about.
https://preview.redd.it/qgk2biu2nroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7daaa11111f44bd4207355d649f564bf3c3eb165
The scarlet rot in Astel's boss room appears to be purified. I listed a number of theories explaining how this might have occurred. There are two that I think are most likely. 1) Astel resembles a great dragonfly (Sinister Stromboli notes that he has 6 fingers like the dragons), and great dragonflies are used to make poison antidotes, so Astel may have purified the scarlet rot. 2) The drippings on the scarlet rot resemble dew, and the fungi look like they're melting. The first of these relates to the dewkissed herba, and the second relates to the melted mushrooms. Both of these are used to craft soap, and both only grow "in and near" the false night of the Eternal Cities. Since the stars of the Eternal Cities are required to grow these crops, and they are used to make soap, the stars themselves might have cleansing properties.
On a thematic level, the purification of the scarlet rot in Astel's room seems to reflect the cleansing or elimination of kegare, and along with it, the following themes: progress over stagnation, differentiation, finding one's true self (by killing the vices that obscure it), and the triumph of the self over the forces that seek to dissolve it, e.g. death and memory loss.
Something I was originally unsure of, was if this cleansing was primarily part of Millicent's quest, or if it was also important to Ranni's. Personally I think Ranni's victory is communicated just as well by the ascension to the Moonlight Altar after defeating Astel. So if the elevator to the Moonlight Altar already signifies Ranni's successful character development, what role does the purification of rot play in this conclusion?
https://preview.redd.it/6806mtl3nroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e77d2d701f46f1910a0dc39dd4f45b1e99ed9b05
One thought I just had is that Ranni seems to be easily disgusted; she has a noticeably aloof and condescending tone. Her gestures, namely the steepled positioning of her hands, arguably gives off a feeling of elitism as well—though this is more subjective (and maybe it's just meant to reflect her scheming tendencies). She lives in what could be called an "ivory tower", since it's filled with books, and many of these rises are called towers explicitly. Her referring to the Two Fingers as "that thing" also indicates disgust (understandably enough, so this doesn't really say much about her general disgust sensitivity). If rot is kegare, then perhaps it's not surprising that a character high in trait disgust would seek to purify it.
Second—and I think this is the more likely explanation—it might have to do with the Age of the Stars. If the theory I presented about stars having purifying properties is correct, then Ranni might be trying to cleanse the current order by exposing it to starlight. Maybe this was the plan, rather than just separating herself from the order? Even if separation was the primary ambition, though, this is still arguably a method of sanitation, since isolation, i.e. quarantine, is also effective against germs and the spread of infection.
Some counterevidence for both of these theories is that Ranni seems to imply the order can't be eliminated—only moved far away, "beneath our feet." (You could say this is another association with cleanliness, since we use our feet to walk on the ground, and dirt.) I believe this ambition is actually represented on the Moonlight Altar, through the relationship between the moon seen here and the minor erdtree, which is placed conspicuously close to the moon and is actually being struck by its moon beams. I argued in my recent post that this symbolizes how even the Erdtree would become "minor" in the new order. However, I also entertained the idea that the moon beams were cutting the minor erdtree down or replacing it, so this might be compatible with the sanitation idea after all.
You can see how the moon beam almost appears to replace the trunk of the minor erdtree, from certain angles.
Color thoughts: The synthesis of Ranni's and Millicent's quests ties into the consistent purple and red+blue color patterns in, adjacent to, and above the Lake of Rot. (Or, this narrative synthesis might be what these coloring pairings were intended to hint at.) You could easily make the case that the red of the Lake of Rot is Millicent, and the blue of the Ainsel River is Ranni. The flowing of the blue water into the red lake would (color-theoretically) make purple. Another interpretation is that the blue river represents mind and memory, which resists rot's red, physical decay of the body and brain.
A return to the topic of the golden ants:
There's something similar to these golden ants in the Dung Eater's room in the Roundtable Hold. At first I thought they were the same as the ones in Ainsel, but it became clear they're not as well-defined; unlike the ants, you can't see their wings, or really any distinct anatomy. Then I noticed that the buzzing sound (which is present near the golden ants as well as in the Dung Eater's room), was more likely coming from black flies, which I hadn't noticed since they blend into the darkly lit room. So I don't know if these small golden lights are insects at all; if they're not, then I'm not sure why they are only found in the Dung Eater's corner. Maybe they have something to do with the sun emblem on his armor?
I used motion blur because it makes the lights/bugs easier to see; that's why the picture looks smudged.
More parallels between Millicent's and Ranni's quests, beyond the Ainsel River
There are a few other patterns connecting Millicent's and Ranni's quests. I'll discuss the simpler of the two first, as it won't take as long to explain. This pattern is the pairing of rot with cold (either snow or ice), and the purification of the former by the latter. The second is the theme of severance.
1.) In the above text I interpreted the journey through the Ainsel River as a depiction of both Ranni's and Millicent's character arcs; but this same imagery and symbolism can be found where Millicent completes her quest. Millicent dies inside the Haligtree, where another waterfall of rot is found, along with snow or fungal spores/ash resembling snow. This is part of the drainage channel, which purifies the rot and funnels out fresh water. In my recent post on Elphael, I talked about how this combination of rot and ice is a reference to the poison that drips from the icy rivers in Norse mythology, which are called Élivágar.
https://preview.redd.it/y3jaxms6nroa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=198d5ef7e58cb8ab90d3ca90b5f01e177b6855f4
Now I can see that all of these motifs—cold mixed with rot, and purification—are found in the Ainsel River and Lake of Rot as well. First, you could imagine that by moving through the Ainsel River—which in a sense she does, in her mini-doll form, and by talking to you at checkpoints throughout your trek—Ranni is freezing and neutralizing the rot. Second, the point of entry to the Ainsel River, or at least the one that is relevant to Ranni's quest, is the waygate in Renna's rise. As the theorist Queelag pointed out, 'renna' means "to melt". She likens the Ainsel River to the melted ice of the snow witch, who Ranni emulates. So again, just as in the inside of the Haligtree and drainage channel, ice and snow serve to contrast and combat rot.
One more thing on this point: In Norse mythology, the poison dripping from Élivágar creates Ymir, who is the first giant or jötunn. And in Elden Ring, both rot waterfalls have giants at their bottom. In the Haligtree, these giants are Malenia and Miquella's Haligtree form; in the Lake of Rot, these are the statues of the ancient dynast holding the tablet—who I believe may have been a troll, based on the similarities pointed out to me between the trolls and the depiction of this figure.
2.) Now I'll discuss the second theme of severance. Ranni wants to kill the Two Fingers so that they cannot "pull her strings" and control her like a puppet. Seluvis tries to do the same thing; he attempts to turn her into a puppet, and this might be why she reacts so violently to his plot, killing both of you in retaliation. The weapon she uses to kill the puppeteer and cut her strings is the Fingerslayer Blade, which has a name noticeably similar to the Finger Severer, which is a multiplayer item.
Millicent's story is also one of separation. To start with, I should mention the popular theory that Millicent is a component of Malenia's self—more specifically, the pride she sacrificed when facing Radahn. If true, this would make Millicent another part of Malenia that was severed from her, much like her arm. Further evidence for this theory is that there are five valkyries—the same number of fingers on a hand, which Malenia had taken from her; so the theory is that the five sisters are Malenia's five severed fingers. (I heard of this theory on the hand of Malenia from Gideon the Half-Knowing in one of his episodes of Elden Kings.)
So already, Millicent is analogous to a severed limb or finger of Malenia. But the idea of severance manifests in other parts of her quest, too. If you choose to side with Millicent against her sisters, then Millicent chooses to die, retaining her individuality against the collective nature of rot which consumes Malenia and the other valkyries—thus severing her ties with them. Recall the communal nature of rot, e.g. in the Kindred of Rot's exultation. (Also, killing your family would be an example of "cutting ties", which is also an important part in Ranni's story.) If you choose the opposite route and side against Millicent, you are also continuing the pattern of severance: you are cutting the bond of trust that connects you to her, and that you have cultivated throughout her arc. (You also symbolically sever her hand as well, since you receive her prosthesis after killing her.)
https://preview.redd.it/0x203fr7nroa1.jpg?width=332&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27f03d4e75fcc57d7991437a3f4f6cd666647693
Gowry speaks of severance explicitly, when he implores you:
"Sever that trust. Nurtured by betrayal, her bud will flower most vividly."
Gowry analogizes this act of severing to pruning a flower. If you kill Gowry, he says, "O Millicent, my daughter... Who would prune your sapling flesh?". In my view, Gowry sees Millicent as a primary, central flower, in relation to auxiliary growths representing (a) her family, or (b) her weaknesses as a warrior.
To address the first part: remember that Gowry favors Millicent. He says she may "outshine her sisters", and seems to think she might become more powerful than Malenia, since he says Millicent was "so close to becoming the finest of flowers." So it's possible that this pruning of Millicent, i.e. her death, is actually the clipping of the other, lesser buds from the flower (her siblings and Malenia), thus allowing the soil's nutrients to empower and nourish Millicent alone. This is in turn analogous to the dominance of one sprout over the others in tree resprouting, which the Tarnished Archaeologist has theorized about.
The second interpretation is simpler, as in this view the flower is one character (Millicent), and the stems connecting to the ancillary buds and branches represent the trust that is holding her back from becoming an effective warrior. A warrior, after all, is more effective at killing when not inhibited by compassion. Moreover, in Norse mythology, the valkyries are agents of death.
Alternatively, a hybrid interpretation that takes both the family and trust angles into account, is that the buds to be pruned are the people she's formed relationships with, and that the stems connecting to those people are her trust in them—i.e. the relations themselves. Thus, what must be severed is her bonds with her family and friends. (But if this were so, shouldn't Gowry view being "abandoned" by Malenia and Millicent as a good thing, and not something to despair over?)
Link for the thumbnail: https://imgur.com/a/nAWk1Pv
References:
-My post on the ecology of Astel's area: "Theories on the ecology and purity of Astel's boss room"
-Post on (partially about) the symbolism of the Moonlight Altar and minor erdtree: "The origins of the Dark Moon, dependence and independence of the moons, and more Moonlight Altar analysis"
-Post about my original theory on the golden insects being aphids: "Insect classification: the golden bugs in the Ainsel River"
-Post about Miquella's needle and the eye of the storm: "Why Miquella's needle can only be used in Placidusax's arena, and how this relates to Malenia's Waterfowl Dance"
2023.03.19 18:55 QuestioningEspecialy Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 1/4 (GrandFix, 1.5 Expansion, Mods Pack)
Felt in the mood to whip this mod list together for the Russian side Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura after posting the English side in November (updates needed). Only took too many hours to count. 🤷🏿♂️
(section removed because 40k character limit)
Related Posts: * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 0/4 (GrandFix, ReBulid Beta, old Arcanum Club, Multiplayer) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 1/4 (GrandFix, 1.5 Expansion, Mods Pack) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 2/4 (Total Rebalance, ReBulid Beta, High Quality Modules) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 3/4 (vk, old Arcanum Club, Arcane Coast) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 4/4 (patches galore, Multiplayer, Arcanum Club) * Arcanum Patches & Mods Compilation (what to download) [ENG]
WARNING: Clicking a "direct download" link will initiate the download. You're putting your faith in a stranger here.
WARNING: Be vigilant with ArcanumClub.org's download links, could've sworn some took me to a trojen page twice but now they're just deadlinked. Initially noticed this on their Arcanum 1.5 Expansion v Mod.2012 page and re-experienced it weeks later after tesing the first "download from Yandex. Disk" link.
WARNING: Every now and then, an old.arcanumclub.org download link will send me to a page to download a Firefox addon as part of a security check. Close it and reopen the same link. I've never seen it happen twice in a row. Would not recommend trusting that bs page, btw.
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submitted by QuestioningEspecialy to u/QuestioningEspecialy [link] [comments]
(section removed because 40k character limit)
Related Posts: * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 0/4 (GrandFix, ReBulid Beta, old Arcanum Club, Multiplayer) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 1/4 (GrandFix, 1.5 Expansion, Mods Pack) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 2/4 (Total Rebalance, ReBulid Beta, High Quality Modules) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 3/4 (vk, old Arcanum Club, Arcane Coast) * Arcanum (RUS) Patches & Mods Compilation 4/4 (patches galore, Multiplayer, Arcanum Club) * Arcanum Patches & Mods Compilation (what to download) [ENG]
WARNING: Clicking a "direct download" link will initiate the download. You're putting your faith in a stranger here.
WARNING: Be vigilant with ArcanumClub.org's download links, could've sworn some took me to a trojen page twice but now they're just deadlinked. Initially noticed this on their Arcanum 1.5 Expansion v Mod.2012 page and re-experienced it weeks later after tesing the first "download from Yandex. Disk" link.
WARNING: Every now and then, an old.arcanumclub.org download link will send me to a page to download a Firefox addon as part of a security check. Close it and reopen the same link. I've never seen it happen twice in a row. Would not recommend trusting that bs page, btw.
Notes
- Some websites failed to translate on Google Translate, but worked fine on Yandex Translate. Others failed on both (especially archived pages), but translate fine on the Linguist addon. Links that have "(Russian)" after them fall into the third category.
- Linguist's Auto Translate feature may fail on vk.com for some reason.
- be aware that the download links may not work through Yandex Translate
- Yandex Translate's links are only temporary and I'd rather DeGoogle, so only original links will be provided.
- If your readme files appear as untranslatable gibberish (e.g.: Ýòîò ïàò÷ ïðåäñòàâëÿåò) and you, like me, got tired of searching for a simple (and convenient) solution, then just drag & drop the .txt file into your web browser and (since Linguist cannot compute for some reason) copy it all over to Yandex Translate.
- terra-arcanum.com's download links may end with a file extension (e.g.: exe, zip), but it's actually a download page. 🤷🏿♂️
- While connected to NordVPN, https://yadi.sk/i links may not convert to https://disk.yandex.com and https://docviewer.yandex.com links may not work at all.
- If you spot the deadlink http://forums.arcanumclub.ru/index.php?showtopic=11696 [for "Mods Pack by Foxx для Arcanum 1.5 Expansion (2012)"] while browsing Russian forums, just use https://forums.arcanumclub.org/?showtopic=11696 instead.
- Some links got expanded on in the post (and even combed) while others didn't. Life's too short.
- You'll notice some things mentioned in brief only to be expanded on and even hyperlinked elsewhere in this or another post. Make your peace with it.
- (clear) = "No security vendors and no sandboxes flagged this file as malicious" on virustotal.com.
- (combed) = you can skip the page because I already went through and added everything relevant to the post, but decided to included the link anyway for whatever reason.
GrandFix 1.3
(07/01/2021) & (28.1.2007?) by Double G, formerly known as Gentle_Giant Mega.nz download: GrandFix1.3_MiniFixGG2.exe (07.01.2021) * WARNING: The Mega.nz download has a "W32.AIDetect.malware2" and "Malicious" detection on its VirusTotal.com page. old.arcanumclub.org's Grand_Fix (ru) Version 1.3 (GrandFix1_3.zip) (direct download) (1/1/2007?) old.arcanumclub.org post/readme forums.arcanumclub.org latest post (29.8.2020) forums.arcanumclub.org discussion post (28.1.2007) Steam guide post (1 Mar, 2022) * WARNING: The Steam guide's download has a single "Malware.Heuristic.1003" detection on its VirusTotal.com page. old.arcanumclub.org's All versions of Grand_Fix, additions, fixes, mini-fixes, installation description, screenshots. forums.arcanumclub.org's Grand_Fix fourmDetails:
- "fix/patch for Arcanum of any version, it fixes a number of glitches, localizer errors and some other shortcomings (see the fixes section for more details ). It is possible to consider this patch as an alternative crack."
- Text cracker (makes Russian)
- Russification non-optional
- "used as a Russifier of the original English version"
- "has much less influence on the game's balance than many other localizations"
- "most stable and time-tested Russian version of Arcanum"
- (not sure if still accurate)
- Da real Asrudin (aka DrA) and Dedeco's BugFixes v. 2.2 and 2.3 incldued
- Otto Krupp's All In One fix/hack incldued
- Lost Items Mod (LIM) included
- set of files included in GF that allows you to get items in the game, for some reason, not finalized by Troika Games and, as a result, not included in the release version of Arcanum.
- Mechanical Followers: Clockwork Decoy, Noise Maker Decoy/Bellringer, Clockwork Physician, Illuminated Decoy, Explosive Decoy, Charged Automaton
- Weapons: Hushed Pistol, Shreck's Multibarreled Pistol, Folding Rifle, Levered Machinegun
- Tech item and its blueprint: Staff Of Teleportation
- Weapon Schematic: Charged Axe
- Addons
- LevelHack - removes the 50 level limit for the hero and NPCs.
- ManualsHack - reduces the weight of all Technologist Manuals and makes them "readable". [enabled by default]
- PortraitPacks - optional alternative portraits for some NPC followers from other versions of Arcanum, possibly demo or European. The portrait pack includes the following portraits: Bane of the Kree, Chukka, Jaina Stiles, Kraka Tur.
- RndEncFix - mini fix "Random Encounter Bug Fix" to remove repeated occurrences of a random encounter with the Mysterious Ghost, the so-called. "Mysterious Apparition". (see note)
- gamer_777's fix for game crashing after level 50
- Gentle_Giant's fix for random encounters after level 50
- MiniFixGG2 included (direct download) (23.7.2007)
- Bug fixes in GF v. 1.3: Ristezze, Magnus, Gilbert Bates, Jormund's jailer, Daniel Halloway, Madame Leal, Mr. Franklin (DLG fix; thorn)
- As part of LIM, a new weapon for mages has been added - the one-handed sword Vampire's Touch Blade. Based on an unused Troika Games spell Drain Life, which was significantly changed: made workable, added effect. Look for a new item on sale from mages; very rare
- new Animal Lure / Animal Lure scheme
- new scheme and image for Arrows technologists
- changed assortment of goods at sellers quite significantly
- improved names and descriptions of several items
- changed ground art of a couple of items
- compatible with modifications that don't replace arcanum4.dat and arcanum.patch0
- "conflicts are probably possible due to the use of common script numbers, indexes from MES files, etc."
- compatible with Cargo Hold (Rasputin the Mad Monk)
- incompatible with CarArcanum
GrandFix patches
by Gentle_Giant (seems like these two aren't included in the latest GrandFix 1.3 installation, but I could be wrong)Details:
- Arronax Mod: The relationship of this micro mod to GF is very conditional… It changes Arronax's SPA and ART so that he can use any armor and weapon. To install the mod, you need to drop arcanum. patch1 in the ’modules ' folder, if such a file already exists, then rename arcanum. patch1, based on the sequential numbering. Perform manual" cleaning " of temporary files in the 'maps' folder (see about this in the GF readme). The mod will have no effect if you start with a save in Void or have already taken Arronax to the team.
- ArronaxMod.zip (direct download) (1/1/2007?)
- Townmaps Fix: An optional fix that contains townmaps fixes for Black Root, Black Mountain Clan, and Kree — not the maps themselves, but their panarama display. Drop the contents of the archive in the directory with the game installed. If you want, you can pack a DAT file with a name like arcanum.patchX, where X is a number greater than or equal to 0 (numbering should go in a row). The fix can be used not only in conjunction with GF, but also with other patches/mods; provided that they did not change the maps of the corresponding cities.
- TownmapsFix.zip (direct download)
Grand Fix 1.1 & 1.3 "cosmetic" Expansion Style Patch
(5.10.2009) (05/12/2013) by aRUSt (Avis Nepos) old.arcanumclub.org 1.1 post (5.10.2009) old.arcanumclub.org 1.3 (Message #12) (11.10.2011) disk.yandex downloads: GF1.1's GF1.1 Expansion style patch v.1.0.rar, GF1.3's Patches for GF1.1 Expansion style BETA1.rar (installs ontop of the former)Details:
- both versions require GrandFix 1.1 [Arcanum_GrandFix_1.1.zip (direct download)]
- v1.1
- translation of the game from Expansion 1.5 (i.e., the translation of Fargus + the delights of enthusiasts from arcanumclub.ru), mixed with the translation from GrandFix1.1 (dialogues with their fixes; for example, almost everything from there. Also, more logical (in my opinion) names are taken from there.
- Race names are taken entirely from Expansion 1.5-Fargus
- v1.3
- I decided to just add to my "cosmetic" patch everything that would bring it closer to GF1.3. In addition, along the way, something else was finalized with a file.
- Fixed a lot of names and inaccuracies in the texts of the dialogues.
- almost like GF1.3, but with a peculiar translation and without Lost Items Mod. And whenever possible (and desired), I continue to correct mistakes in translation and style.
- (basically an attempt to bring GF1.1 up to GF1.3 without losing the Expansion style patch's changes)
- includes Mod Arcanum 1.5 Expansion (not sure which RC version, though)
Unofficial Patch 1.0.7.5, For the English version of Arcanum
(10.5.2007) (17.3.2009 last edited) by thorn ENG downloads: 1075b1.zip (direct download), 01283The_Watchdog.zip (direct download)Details:
- it largely repeats the GrandFix (GF), but does not Russify the game (or include modifications?)
- changelog (205 entries) in post
Arcanum 1.5 Expansion Mod
Expansion v. 2012 (RC8) (30.12.2014) (August 20, 2020) by san & gamer_777 trailer (Feb 18, 2016) (Russian) Old.ArcanumClub.org's page (December 30, 2014) Old.ArcanumClub.org's Screenshot Gallery Old.ArcanumClub.org's Arcanum 1.5 Expansion Mod (2012): how to download and install page for v. 2012 Old.ArcanumClub.org's Arcanum 1.5 Expansion Mod: how to download and install page for v. 2006 (10.11.2006?) Screesnhots: 1 2 3 4 5 forums.arcanumclub.org's Arcanum 1.5 — Expansion forum gamer_777's FAQ (August 20, 2020) gamer_777's forum FAQ (29.8.2012) news (arcanumclub.org download links excluded for cautionary reasons, also because they suddenly stopped working for me anyway) direct download links: arcanum-1-5-expansion-2012.zip (RC8) & Expansion2012_rc5.exe (RC5)Details:
- "the game itself, with a large number of additions and fixes. New locations, quests, NPCs, artifacts, items, interiors, dialogs, characters, etc. were added to the game. Bugs were fixed, translation was corrected, and a large number of new graphics were introduced. But the ultimate goal of the game is the same."
- All diagrams, items, and graphics from both projects are correctly combined. Locations from Arcanum 1.5 Expansion (2006) have been updated to include new items, schematics, NPCs, and quests. Text translation has been improved and adapted to GrandFix (dwarf-dwarf, Scalers, etc.).
- This version of the mod is only compatible with the original English version of the game!
- The mod is NOT compatible with the "builds" of the game or with most other mods.
- The mod is NOT compatible with saved games made before installing it.
- Be sure to start the game from the beginning!
- The current version of the mod (RC8) is compatible with saved games from previous versions (RC1-RC7).
- Art of "Illumination Bait" and "Exploding Bait" — Copyright © T'e'mhbiu`
- Patch for solving problems with game performance under Windows 8/10 — Copyright © the Wine project
- Changes to Arkanum's base locations. New locations in fashion.
- Modifications:
- Automatic satellite level upgrade - The level of a companion is automatically increased when joining a group, if it is lower than that of the main character. (optional)
- Level Hack - Removes the 50 level limit for the main character and NPC. (disabled by default)
- Reloading magic Staffs - You can now recharge your magic Staffs in magic shops for a small fee.
- Banking system - In A Commercial Bank Taranta you can always take out a loan or make a deposit.
- Cargo Hold - Adds a ship's hold where you can sleep and store items.
- Exchange Fate Point For Char Point - Expansion includes a mod that allows you to exchange Fate Points for character points (Char Point).
- Playing pool - You can play billiards in some of the Arcanum's bars. The amount and chances of winning depend on the main character's "Game" skill.
- Continuation of the game after the final - After winning, the main character returns back to the Ring of Brodgar, getting the opportunity to choose: finish the game or continue. Along with the continuation of the game, Troika Games ' Easter eggs will also be activated — voiced replicas of some satellites, if you ask them about their plans for the future.
- Potato with Lemon - [with patience,] you can repeatedly harvest lemon trees and potato bushes, which increases the value of the lemon and potato battery scheme.
- Manual View Patch - Changes the appearance of the covers of technological manuals.
- Major changes to locations
- Grayswandir - A small town on the outskirts of the United Kingdom. Greyswandir lives on tourism and is not much like other provincial cities — its architecture is not inferior to the best areas Taranta. There is a fashionable hotel, a rich tavern, shops.
- Dragon's Treasure Cave - For treasure hunters of Arcanum. There are not many monsters — this is not another dungeon with hordes of evil spirits. But there's a lot to see here. And what to take.
- Unicorn Grove - An unusual place on the island of Kattan, which is easy to get to, but not easy to return to. You can find a new artifact here. However, it will also be difficult to get it.
- Misty Hills - New magic shop, graveyard, Mage's hut, magic portal, basements, etc.
- Tarantula - Tarantula it became noticeably larger. Several new quests, new items, new characters, voice acting of bed scenes in a brothel, a full-fledged Bank, a jewelry store, a police department and the opportunity to become a bounty hunter.
- Tulla - Here you can meet the Mysterious The Merchant, from which you can buy many valuable magic items.
- Satellites
- Annie — young the elf girl with a rare specialization of archer technologist. It can be found at the very beginning of the game.
- Torian Kel now an expert in melee and evasion. And unlike all the other companions, it can be easily resurrected with dragon's blood..
- Arronax he has become stronger and can wear any armor..
- Raven now it does not cause problems with water magic, preferring natural magic.
- Geoffrey Tarrelond-Ash abandoned fire magic and now prefers mental magic.
- Sebastian and Wallinger Now the firearms experts.
- Flow charts
- Mechanical Boots - By combining Metal Boots and a Small Spring, you get simple and comfortable shoes for all weather conditions.!
- Charged Boomerang - Made by combining a Balanced Boomerang and a Charged Ring, it can teach even the most armored opponents a lesson. .
- Crossbow - an ancient weapon in a new way! Reliable and deadly, it will not leave your enemies a single chance!
- Flow Neutralizer (Technological amulet) - It is a miniature device made by connecting Electrical Accessories and Flow Spectrometer, provides excellent protection against many spells! Excellent!
- Note: the mod also includes GrandFix and its schemes: Arrows, a Teleporting Device, a Loaded Axe, a Loaded Automaton, a Mechanical Decoy, an Explosive Bait, an Animal Bait, a Multi-Barreled Shrek Pistol.
- Backstories/Backgrounds
- Messenger of the High Elves - Quentorien is not the last settlement of the light ones the elves in Arcanum. But for many more centuries, the portals to their cities will be hidden from the inhabitants of the Known world of Arcanum. The Firstborn don't like technology, and they're not interested in open-world frameworks. But some of the Higher Ones were interested in the looming conflict. After all, all communities of carriers of life and death affect each other in an incomprehensible way. A Messenger from the Highest has been sent to tip the scales to the necessary balance. For the inhabitants of the famous Arcanum, he may seem like a god, but his natural characteristics are not unique. It is important to remember-for whom and when. Beauty (+2), Charm (+4), Intelligence (+2), Willpower (+2). However, his arrogance is something, even by standards the elves (-4 max. followers), and about money vyshni elves they don't think twice about it (he starts without money).
- Killer - You are a professional hitman. You are able to be invisible (Sneak +4) and know a lot about your craft (Rear Kick +4). But a lot of brutal murders have left a certain mark on your Charm (-1) and Worldview (-50, and it will NEVER improve). You got on the airship, chasing your next victim, until you almost became a victim yourself.
- My Favorites - You firmly believe that you are the " Chosen One "who will one day save the world from"Great Evil." You have spent your entire life preparing for this moment by learning combat skills (all combat skills +4). But recently you were declared mentally ill and placed in a mental hospital, which did not affect your character in the best way (Charm -3). However, thanks to your megalomania (Willpower +2), you did not give up, but managed to escape and hide on the airship. You don't have any money.
- Alien - You were not born in Arcanum, but accidentally entered it through an unstable portal that threw you out after the airship crashed. It is almost impossible to go back. You'll have to start a new life here, pretending to be a disaster survivor. In your own world, you were an educated person (Intelligence +4) and even enjoyed shooting (Perception +2, Firearms +4). But you also had a lot of bad habits and clearly neglected going to the gym, which affected your Strength (-2) and Physique (-4). In addition, you sometimes behave very strangely by the standards of Arcanum (-10 to the Reaction). You had some money with you, but with these green papers in your pocket, you didn't have any money. Arkanuma can only light a fire or go to the toilet…
- Munchkin - You are simply obsessed with mania, which you call the word "pumping" incomprehensible to others. This gives you 30% more experience than normal players People. Unfortunately, you have atrophied your Charm (-6) and all your social skills (and these skills can NEVER be improved). You start with your favorite two-handed weapon, bitterly complaining that due to weight restrictions, you were not allowed to take a bunch of armor with you on the airship, which you spent all your money on.
- The witcher - You earn a living by destroying various monsters. And you're pretty good at it, thanks to your excellent reflexes (Dexterity: +2, Evasion: +4) and speed (+5). But a life full of dangers and hardships has pretty much battered you (Beauty: -3), turning you into a harsh lone wolf (Charm can NEVER be higher than 8. No more than one companion.). Having heard that in the tunnels under Using a tarantula there were a lot of monsters, you went on the road, spending your savings on a ticket.
- includes the official patch 1.0.7.4, GrandFix patch / Russifier, and MiniFixGG2
- included with Grand Fix 1.1 & 1.3 "cosmetic" Expansion Style Patch
- compatible with Arcanum High Resolution Patch 1.1a and Arcanum High Resolution Patch 1.5
- arcanumclub.org's arcanum-high-resolution-patch-1-1a.zip (direct download), old.arcanumclub.org's (direct download)
- HighRes1.1a.exe: terra-arcanum.com
- arcanumclub.org's arcanum-high-resolution-patch-1-5.zip (direct download)
- compatible with individual modules
- compatible with High Quality Townmaps [high-quality-townmaps.zip (direct download)]
- if you install a special patch HQT compatibility patch (direct download) immediately after installing High Quality Townmaps.
- compatible with High Quality Music (direct download)
- but if you intend to use the lossless option [Arcanum_OST_Lossless.exe (direct download)], then be sure to install HQ Music Patch for Expansion (direct download) instead of the patch from Droga.
- Can add Russian voice acting to videos
- download [the] Video clips in Russian from Fargus (direct download) and unzip it to the "game folder" /modules/Arcanum/
Tweaker for Arcanum 1.5 Expansion Mod RC8
(August 20, 2020) by gamer_777 forum post (17.1.2020) arcanumclub.org's direct downloadDetails:
- This tiny program allows you to disable various small features in the Expansion mod
- requires Expansion v. 2012 (RC8)
Mods Pack v1.9 for Arcanum 1.5 Expansion (2012)
(4.2.2017) by Foxx Yandex's Mods Pack for Arcanum Expansion.zip download folderDetails:
- description of (many) mods (view txt file)
- requires the original English version of the game (or the official re-release from GOG.com) and Arcanum 1.5 Expansion (2012)
- Betty Fix для Arcanum Expansion RC7 (gamer_777) - Fixes a serious and very ancient bug (apparently this bug was already present in Expansion 2006, because that Betty and everything related to it was made back in those distant times).
- Arcanum_Fixed_Script для Arcanum Expansion RC7 (gamer_777) - Fix scripts for several characters in the game if you cast a will control spell on these characters or turn them into zombies using the Necromizer. This bug is also present on the original English version of the game. I checked it out. GrandFix doesn't fix this bug.
- Official modules from Troika Games (HQ from Gentle_Giant & gamer_777) - This is a collection of official modules from Troika Games. They differ from the original versions with high-quality city maps (townmaps), the presence of music (for example, during a battle), and translation into Russian.
- It includes the following modules:
- -> Buried Secrets: A small mod or rather an instruction for novice mod builders. A dark story about a buried holy man, a mysterious manuscript and the living dead.
- -> Deathmatch: Remember the pit on the The Island of Despair is something similar. Joy for the war: there is practically no plot.
- -> Dusty Dunes: Remember Franklin Payne? Here you will meet this brave traveler. This mod is somewhat more "informative" than the two mentioned above: there is even a love story…
- -> Hellgate: A little detective story. Who opened the Gates of Hell and flooded the area with demons? Who is really guilty and who is the slanderer? Find out for yourself…
- -> Time: Probably the most interesting module of all. Time travel: to the past, future, and alternative future; the ability to influence the fate of people and cities, etc..
- -> Woodmir Race: If you dream of a jackpot of 50,000 gold coins, play it. Almost no plot, just "race and mochilovo" for money.
- -> Lost Dungeon of Souls
- -> Vormantown (maps)
- Unofficial Escape Tarant module (translated by aRUSt) - Plot (in brief): We find ourselves in the very capital city of Taranta. But that's not the point: all the inhabitants have disappeared somewhere, and instead of them, monsters and wolves are walking around the city. What should I do? Run, run from the damned place... But it wasn't there! We have to literally "cut through" the path to escape. In addition, you will need to do something: you need to kill four "bosses" and remove the Rings of Power from their corpses, then kill the fifth and get the Ring of Omnipotence!
- Unofficial Tomb of Tol Guldur module (translated by aRUSt) - Small review: It takes place in a small village on the island of Tol Guldur, where suddenly a lot of Death Lanterns begin to appear at night. The dominance of monsters does not allow the villagers to live in peace... Our hero is trying to find out what, in fact, the matter is. And then it turns out that the village is built, as they say, "on the bones"...
- Patch for high resolution support (Drog Black Tooth) - Configuring the High Resolution Patch of the Patch
- Interface mod (gamer_777) - Mod improves the appearance of the game interface when using High Resolution Patch.
- High-quality city maps (Drog Black Tooth) - High-quality panoramic map displays than originally in the game.
- Expansion (gamer) Compatibility Patch_777) - Special patch for compatibility of "High-quality City Maps" and Arcanum Expansion (2012).
- Erotic Patch (Foxx) - Now, during love scenes, each girl has her own erotic video picture, instead of a black screen.
- Puritan patch (gamer_777) - Removes paintings of naked girls in the Taranta brothel.
- Russian subtitles for videos (Crypton & Foxx) - Adds Russian subtitles for English videos.
- Russian voice acting for videos (Fargus) - The Fargus team translated the English videos. In the video "02112", one audio track remained untranslated.
- Disable Introductory Logos (Double G) - Disables three videos-SierraLogo, TroikaLogo and 50000. bik (a man with a gun).
- 10 loading screens (Foxx) - Replaces standard Splash screens with new ones specifically designed for Arcanum Expansion.
- Russified World Map (NeOn) - Russify the global Arcanum world map.
- Maud. The musical Renaissance of Arcanum (Sonik)
- As you know, the composer Ben Houge (Ben Houge) wrote many fascinating musical compositions for the legendary games. Such famous projects as King's Quest, Gabriel Knight 3, Ground Control, Brothers in Arms and, of course, Half Life are easily recognized by his works. But a small string and bow quartet led by Ben was able to play the unique beauty of violin melodies with viola and cello for the soundtrack of Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura-a game that was ahead of its time and gained well-deserved attention only after the collapse of the epic development studio Troika Games, which also gave us a post-apocalyptic furor in the face of Fallout.
- But once again taking up the passage of the good old Arcanum, many of us unscrew the slider for setting the volume level of "Music" to zero in order to replace the melodies that have become boring in two or three passes with a player playing in the background. But then we lose the thrill of battle, the excitement of arriving in Taranth, and the excitement of exploring the catacombs of Caladon.
- After several nights of listening to a collection of soundtracks, I came to the conclusion that the most suitable creation for reviving the music of Arcanum would be the British-Irish epic "Tudors" by Michael Hirst (Michael Hirst), or rather its musical accompaniment in four seasons of the series of the same brilliant composer Trevor Morris (Trevor Morris). [Tudors OST: I, II, III, IV]
- Collection of additional Animation + Fix (Crypton & Drog Black Tooth) - This resource archive restores most of the content from the beta version that was never included in the Arcanum release..
- RESTORED CONTENT:
- -> 1202 creature animations;
- -> 175 monster animations;
- -> 88 animations of unique NPCs;
- -> 87 orc animations (full set of new animations with armor and weapons);
- -> New animations for some monsters, such as the phantom;
- -> 126 original tracks with ambient sounds (city, meadow, village, mine, forest, etc.);
- -> IN TOTAL, THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO NEW ANIMATIONS FOR EACH RACE WITH A SHIELD AND WEAPON:
- -> Walking a character with a weapon in hand and / or a shield;
- -> Attack from below with a weapon and / or shield.
- KNOWN ISSUES:
- -> Robes have a slightly different shadow color (will be fixed in the next release).);
- -> Several animations were poorly rendered, so they have minor glitches (you may not even notice them in the game).);
- -> There are no sexless animations for HGX Dancers (they were not included in the beta version of the game);
- -> There are no animations for the Air Elemental (there were no ART files for it in the beta, only copies of the Fire Elemental files were used as a replacement).
- Fix (confirmation is required):
- -> Replaced the early robe palettes with the final ones. Characters no longer flash colors.
- -> The full beta Phantom Knight set is included, but the palettes are rearranged to match the final ones.
- -> Fixed the problem with the hgx (plate armor for half-ogres) art set. The extra animations do not exist for this set, but the game now expects them since the other armor sets for half-ogres have them. This results in the half-ogre character either disappearing or freezing. Placeholders (dupes of old animations) are now added to prevent this.
- Changed world and Dungeon lighting (Damphil) - Lighting is taken from the Ultimate Nightmare Mod 1.07 (the mod itself is not included).
- Raise the level threshold by 400 XP (Foxx) - Example: in the original version, you need 2100 points to move to the 2nd level, with a fixed score of 2500, etc..
- Arcanum Total Rebalance (Positiff)
- Main goals of the mod:
- -> Making a balance for melee and ranged weapons (including those that are sold in stores or located in locations), adding features to different types of weapons.
- -> Balance the characteristics of armor, helmets, gloves, rings, and amulets.
- -> Balancing spells and refining them.
- -> Correction of jambs in technical diagrams, including highly inflated or undervalued ones technological propensities of their components and inconsistencies of the drawing on the diagram with the resulting image.
- -> subject matter (when making changes to the schemes, I was guided by logic, physics, and the external world).
- -> by the type of items, i.e. the components must be close to the item being collected, both in terms of appearance and functionality).
- -> Create unique ground-based art files for most items, so that the item's appearance is consistent.
- -> on the ground, it exactly matched its appearance in the inventory.
- -> Edit different texts and descriptions to make the game more informative, aesthetic, and easy to play.
- -> Correction of errors and various shortcomings.
- it is recommended to read the full description of the mod!
- adapted to the Mods Pack, no additional manipulations are required after installation.
- Arcanum: Terra Incognita (Gerakruger) - Actually, the mod itself was developed in order to bring a certain "touch of mystery" to this legendary game, which any self-respecting RPG fan went through and through.
- Now you should not immediately leave the locations on the global map of Arkanum.
- Almost every location has something interesting, mysterious, and early unknown. Mystery-this is the specialty of my mod, something that will encourage the player to re-launch Arcanum and complete the game.
- New features:
- -> Made changes to many locations on the global map (added monsters and NPCs, added local bosses, expanded existing locations by adding new objects).
- -> Changed the legendary city of Kree-now it is not a ruin, but a full-fledged military town in which (with caution) you can trade. Two merchants and a blacksmith are present. Barbarian Chieftain – local boss of the location…
- -> Added two ships that you can use for your own purposes. One ship in Caladon, owned by the Bounty Hunter community.
- -> Added a secret Smuggler's cove (there is a second ship on the dock that the player can use). There is a tavern, warehouses and several houses located here. The bay is used by the thieves of Caladon and Tarant for secret transactions.
- -> Added a cursed town (in a mountainous area). Local residents have locked themselves in their homes and do not go out. Every night in the town there are undead, in addition, in the center of the town, someone opened a portal with demons. Close the portal-your task.
- -> Added a military garrison (barracks, houses). In the village there is a prison, in the dungeon of which the most dangerous and powerful monsters of Arcanum are kept in custody. Garrison Guard – a challenge for any player.
- -> Added a military camp besieged by undead hordes.
- -> Now the ruins of the temple are a whole adventure, it is the ruins of a whole city, a huge territory that keeps its secrets.
- -> Added a forest, real and dangerous, big and scary. Naturally keeping its secrets from prying eyes.
- -> Changed the development pattern of Virgil. Instead of wasting points on an unnecessary "Lock Pick" skill, it develops strength up to 12.
- -> Added a merchant (wise woman) in Black Root. Located in the area of the railway station.
- -> Added a poacher's camp to defend against an unknown monster that hunts in the vicinity of the camp.
- -> Added a small settlement near Wuriden where ogre bandits, members of Pollock's Tarant gang, "relax and have fun" .
- -> Added a winter forest in the vicinity of Quiet Waters.
- -> Added real ruins of Vendigroth.
- -> Added jungle on the island of Despair, inhabited by very inhospitable creatures.
- -> The mountain passes of Hardin and Gorgoth are truly dangerous.
- -> Pollock's gang and the Mog clan in Taranta have been reinforced. The security of criminal bosses is appropriate..
- -> And many, many other interesting things. A curious and attentive player, exploring a new area will be rewarded with a treasured chest… Search and find.
2023.03.19 17:56 jtpower99 No struggle w/ the required bosses thus far. Is this normal? (Not a flex)
I'm playing through Elden ring for my first time. I've played through the first two levels of Dark Souls but the only souls like game i've ever beat was Jedi Fallen order, which has similar dodges.
I'm currently level 70 about 74 hours in. Strength build w/ the colossal greatsword. Something like 40 vig, 38 str, and enough endurance to medium roll.
So far w/ great sword and dual katantas and have absolutely ran through margit, Morgott, Renala, radagon (the wolf), the darconic tree sentinel, and yellow godfrey. I'm talking no more than 5 attempts each. Then, i'll go back to caelid and die 20 times each to the erdtre avatar or the scarlet rot dragon for a 6th time.
It feels weird to get these huge rewards for required bosses with ease, but to skip these minor bosses due to the struggle of getting two shot. (The erdtree avatar does this) or i'll die a bunch of times actually getting to a boss and don't even get me started on any platforming.
I'm on attempt four of morgott before entering the erdtree and he's been down to 30% so i'm feeling confident. I've yet to try radan. Something tells me i'm just not to the real struggle yet.
I've yet to use any summons, but I absolutely cheesed the 3 tree sentinels guarding the capital w/ poison. Is this pretty normal for a first playthrough? What was your experience?
submitted by jtpower99 to Eldenring [link] [comments]
I'm currently level 70 about 74 hours in. Strength build w/ the colossal greatsword. Something like 40 vig, 38 str, and enough endurance to medium roll.
So far w/ great sword and dual katantas and have absolutely ran through margit, Morgott, Renala, radagon (the wolf), the darconic tree sentinel, and yellow godfrey. I'm talking no more than 5 attempts each. Then, i'll go back to caelid and die 20 times each to the erdtre avatar or the scarlet rot dragon for a 6th time.
It feels weird to get these huge rewards for required bosses with ease, but to skip these minor bosses due to the struggle of getting two shot. (The erdtree avatar does this) or i'll die a bunch of times actually getting to a boss and don't even get me started on any platforming.
I'm on attempt four of morgott before entering the erdtree and he's been down to 30% so i'm feeling confident. I've yet to try radan. Something tells me i'm just not to the real struggle yet.
I've yet to use any summons, but I absolutely cheesed the 3 tree sentinels guarding the capital w/ poison. Is this pretty normal for a first playthrough? What was your experience?
2023.03.19 05:09 PSneep Beat the game last week for the first time since 2012. Here's my thoughts (Spoilers inside)
+ What a gem. So much vibe in this humble, yet compelling story
+ The finale with what happens to Sydney in the Atrium is fantastic
+ Actually, all character wrap-ups are very well done. Even Tiegr and Neesa (who I can only assume would have had much of their screen time cut during development) have a some great final scenes with Grissom
+ Grand Cathedral has that 1 hallway where the building is sideways. Great touch
+ Boss battle vs Grissom & Armor where Sydney joins is awesome
+ Totally cool that you can befriend enemies by healing them repeatedly
- I always wondered why I didn't remember much of the last 1/3 of the game and it makes sense as I feel like the dungeons and bosses take a nosedive here, until the Cathedral. Bosses are mostly rehashes of previous ones, Ashley is so powerful at this stage they are not very challenging.
- I get what they were going for with Snowfly Forest but I think the map warping sucks. If there was another purpose other than just to get you lost I would get it, but the way it ended up really doesn't qualify as fun to me
- Same with the timed dungeon of Abandoned Mines B2. I get what they were going for but it just doesn't end up being fun going through here. They at least could've cut some enemies. On top, that song (while great in short amounts) really gets old after 10 minutes.
+ First round of battle with Guildenstern on the rooftop is pretty epic
- Second round with Guildenstern not so much. I don't like how they throw one of the strongest and most principal mechanics of the game (the 3d movement and range sphere) out the window for this last boss. It just doesn't really make the battle fun. I think it would've been a better idea to instead have a 1 vs 3 fight or something where god Guildenstern summons some crazy entities or something but the current final boss doesn't do it for me
+ Playing new game + is really fun. I'm wacking everyone with the staff and blowing things up with OP magic
+- But NG+ made me realize how much better designed the first couple dungeons are compared to the last few (Cathedral aside). Wine Cellar & Catacombs have so much vibe and more diversity room to room. The feel worth exploring, whereas most of Abandoned Mines/Limestone Quarry feel copy-pasted.
- I wish that they were a little more generous with the BreakArts. They're so cool but 400+ kills means I probably won't get to see/use them in this day and age. I realize that back in the day this was supposed to give you replay value.
- And I think it's a missed opportunity of making a fist-only build viable by hiding even those breakarts behind so many kills. Would've been cool if fist only was viable with break art usage
++ Anyway, those were minor nitpicks. Overall I really still love this game and I think it holds up really well.
submitted by PSneep to VagrantStory [link] [comments]
+ The finale with what happens to Sydney in the Atrium is fantastic
+ Actually, all character wrap-ups are very well done. Even Tiegr and Neesa (who I can only assume would have had much of their screen time cut during development) have a some great final scenes with Grissom
+ Grand Cathedral has that 1 hallway where the building is sideways. Great touch
+ Boss battle vs Grissom & Armor where Sydney joins is awesome
+ Totally cool that you can befriend enemies by healing them repeatedly
- I always wondered why I didn't remember much of the last 1/3 of the game and it makes sense as I feel like the dungeons and bosses take a nosedive here, until the Cathedral. Bosses are mostly rehashes of previous ones, Ashley is so powerful at this stage they are not very challenging.
- I get what they were going for with Snowfly Forest but I think the map warping sucks. If there was another purpose other than just to get you lost I would get it, but the way it ended up really doesn't qualify as fun to me
- Same with the timed dungeon of Abandoned Mines B2. I get what they were going for but it just doesn't end up being fun going through here. They at least could've cut some enemies. On top, that song (while great in short amounts) really gets old after 10 minutes.
+ First round of battle with Guildenstern on the rooftop is pretty epic
- Second round with Guildenstern not so much. I don't like how they throw one of the strongest and most principal mechanics of the game (the 3d movement and range sphere) out the window for this last boss. It just doesn't really make the battle fun. I think it would've been a better idea to instead have a 1 vs 3 fight or something where god Guildenstern summons some crazy entities or something but the current final boss doesn't do it for me
+ Playing new game + is really fun. I'm wacking everyone with the staff and blowing things up with OP magic
+- But NG+ made me realize how much better designed the first couple dungeons are compared to the last few (Cathedral aside). Wine Cellar & Catacombs have so much vibe and more diversity room to room. The feel worth exploring, whereas most of Abandoned Mines/Limestone Quarry feel copy-pasted.
- I wish that they were a little more generous with the BreakArts. They're so cool but 400+ kills means I probably won't get to see/use them in this day and age. I realize that back in the day this was supposed to give you replay value.
- And I think it's a missed opportunity of making a fist-only build viable by hiding even those breakarts behind so many kills. Would've been cool if fist only was viable with break art usage
++ Anyway, those were minor nitpicks. Overall I really still love this game and I think it holds up really well.
2023.03.18 17:41 324810-6 [Help][PS5] minor tree catacomb watchdogs duo
Place the sign by the stake of Marika
SL 6
Password is doggy
submitted by 324810-6 to BeyondTheFog [link] [comments]
SL 6
Password is doggy
2023.03.18 14:28 Jaagjoch [ps4] neet help in minor eardtree catacombs
submitted by Jaagjoch to CypherRing [link] [comments]
2023.03.18 14:25 Jaagjoch [ps4] need help in minor eardtree catacombs
Wouldn't mind one extra buddy for the double watchdogs.
submitted by Jaagjoch to EldenRingHelp [link] [comments]
2023.03.18 11:15 davidsintrouble1991 Ps5 - Minor Erdtree Catacombs, at summon pool. Password - 1234
submitted by davidsintrouble1991 to BeyondTheFog [link] [comments]
2023.03.18 11:00 metamagic-bot Legacy Meta Update for 2/11-3/18/23
There were 119 "Ur Delver" decks:
submitted by metamagic-bot to metamagic [link] [comments]
4 Brainstorm (online)There were 58 "Initiative Stompy" decks:
1 Brazen Borrower (online)
4 Daze (online)
4 Delver of Secrets (online)
4 Dragon's Rage Channeler (online)
4 Expressive Iteration (online)
2 Flooded Strand (online)
4 Force of Will (online)
1 Island (online)
4 Lightning Bolt (online)
1 Minor Misstep (online)
2 Mishra's Bauble (online)
2 Misty Rainforest (online)
4 Murktide Regent (online)
1 Mystic Sanctuary (online)
2 Polluted Delta (online)
4 Ponder (online)
1 Pyroblast (online)
2 Scalding Tarn (online)
1 Steam Vents (online)
4 Volcanic Island (online)
4 Wasteland (online)
4 Ancient Tomb (online)There were 34 "Cephalid Breakfast" decks:
3 Archon of Emeria (online)
4 Cavern of Souls (online)
4 Chrome Mox (online)
4 City of Traitors (online)
2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire (online)
4 Elite Spellbinder (online)
4 Emeria's Call (online)
2 Karakas (online)
4 Lotus Petal (online)
2 Palace Jailer (online)
2 Plains (online)
4 Seasoned Dungeoneer (online)
4 Solitude (online)
4 Swords to Plowshares (online)
4 Touch the Spirit Realm (online)
1 Walking Ballista (online)
4 White Plume Adventurer (online)
1 Aether Vial (online)There were 33 "Reanimator" decks:
2 Baleful Strix (online)
4 Brainstorm (online)
1 Cabal Therapy (online)
4 Cephalid Illusionist (online)
3 Daze (online)
1 Dread Return (online)
4 Flooded Strand (online)
4 Force of Will (online)
2 Island (online)
1 Kaldra Compleat (online)
1 Marsh Flats (online)
3 Narcomoeba (online)
3 Nomads en-Kor (online)
1 Plains (online)
2 Polluted Delta (online)
4 Ponder (online)
2 Shuko (online)
2 Step Through (online)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (online)
3 Teferi, Time Raveler (online)
1 Thassa's Oracle (online)
3 Tundra (online)
2 Underground Sea (online)
3 Urza's Saga (online)
4 Animate Dead (online)There were 31 "Painter" decks:
3 Archon of Cruelty (online)
2 Badlands (online)
2 Bloodstained Mire (online)
4 Dark Ritual (online)
4 Entomb (online)
4 Exhume (online)
4 Faithless Looting (online)
4 Grief (online)
4 Griselbrand (online)
4 Lotus Petal (online)
2 Marsh Flats (online)
2 Polluted Delta (online)
4 Reanimate (online)
1 Scrubland (online)
1 Serra's Emissary (online)
2 Swamp (online)
2 Thoughtseize (online)
1 Underground Sea (online)
4 Unmask (online)
2 Verdant Catacombs (online)
4 Ancient Tomb (online)There were 25 "8-Cast" decks:
1 Breya's Apprentice (online)
1 Chaos Defiler (online)
2 City of Traitors (online)
4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker (online)
3 Fury (online)
4 Goblin Engineer (online)
4 Goblin Welder (online)
3 Great Furnace (online)
2 Grindstone (online)
3 Lightning Bolt (online)
3 Lotus Petal (online)
7 Mountain (online)
1 Mox Opal (online)
4 Painter's Servant (online)
1 Phyrexian Dragon Engine (online)
3 Pyroblast (online)
2 Red Elemental Blast (online)
2 Simian Spirit Guide (online)
1 Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance (online)
1 Soul-Guide Lantern (online)
4 Urza's Saga (online)
1 Aether Spellbomb (online)There were 20 "Doomsday" decks:
4 Ancient Tomb (online)
4 Chalice of the Void (online)
4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch (online)
4 Force of Will (online)
2 Island (online)
3 Kappa Cannoneer (online)
4 Lotus Petal (online)
4 Mishra's Bauble (online)
4 Mox Opal (online)
2 Otawara, Soaring City (online)
3 Sai, Master Thopterist (online)
4 Seat of the Synod (online)
1 Shadowspear (online)
4 Thought Monitor (online)
4 Thoughtcast (online)
4 Urza's Bauble (online)
4 Urza's Saga (online)
4 Brainstorm (online)
2 Cabal Ritual (online)
1 Cavern of Souls (online)
1 Consider (online)
4 Dark Ritual (online)
2 Daze (online)
4 Doomsday (online)
1 Duress (online)
2 Edge of Autumn (online)
2 Flooded Strand (online)
4 Force of Will (online)
1 Grief (online)
1 Island (online)
1 Lion's Eye Diamond (online)
3 Lotus Petal (online)
2 Misty Rainforest (online)
4 Personal Tutor (online)
4 Polluted Delta (online)
4 Ponder (online)
1 Scalding Tarn (online)
2 Street Wraith (online)
1 Swamp (online)
2 Thassa's Oracle (online)
3 Thoughtseize (online)
4 Underground Sea (online)
2023.03.18 09:40 Dryadversity The dual narrative of the Lake of Rot: Liquid gold, and the Ainsel River as a gold needle
 | I'm guessing many of you have figured out the thematic connection between Ranni's quest and the Ainsel River, which her quest gives us a tour of. If not, it can be summarized like this: the word 'ainsel' means "myself". Ranni could be considered a selfish character; but more importantly, her character arc involves separating herself from the current age, her family, and friends. The Ainsel River is parallel to the Dark Path of the Empyrean, and its defining feature is differentiation. As I've said in a previous post, in some schools of psychology, differentiation is a key stage in psychosocial development, making the thematic signals of the Ainsel River even clearer. submitted by Dryadversity to EldenRingLoreTalk [link] [comments] https://preview.redd.it/6b8w1ez9ggoa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d44a24945b3b54e86e0c43598ce509067a89b50 Since Ranni's quest involves traversing the entire length of the Ainsel River (it starts at its source and ends with a shallow puddle in Astel's boss room) it's easy to assume this venture exclusively concerns and comments on Ranni's character—which makes the placement of the Lake of Rot a bit hard to explain. At one point I viewed the Lake of Rot as something like a disruption in Ranni's quest. I also considered that maybe the developers just needed somewhere to place the culture of the rot god, and thought the Ainsel River would be a fitting complementary habitat (since lakes and rivers go together). Another potential reason for putting the Lake of Rot here is that it's directly below Raya Lucaria, and thus provides an explanation for why Liurnia is sinking (this is mentioned in the Liurnia map description). A more thematic explanation for the Lake of Rot in Ranni's quest is that it's there to provide adversity to Ranni in her narrative. For one thing, the baleful shadow is colored red and black—like Destined Death, but also like the Lake of Rot. Furthermore, while Ranni's story is a social one (separation from her acquaintances), I also think it's psychological, and that the journey from the Ainsel River through the Lake of Rot, to the fight with Astel and up to the Moonlight Altar, is meant to depict another parallel to the Dark Path of the Empyrean: the Dark Night of the Soul. Except, since Ranni actually has an affinity with night, the end of her heroine's journey is not the emergence of the sun at dawn, but a night sky illuminated by a blindingly luminescent moon. Eventually, I learned of yet another reason for this placement of the Lake of Rot, which I believe is among the most important (both in the game's narrative, and for this post), and is probably the original reason for inserting the Lake of Rot between the two ends of the Ainsel River. I learned of this from a post by Nihlus11, who says that both the Lake of Rot and the Ainsel River serve as symbolic commentary on Malenia's and Millicent's stories. If I understand it, their argument is that the Ainsel River combats the amnesic effects of the scarlet rot in the lake by introducing fresh water to the lake, and thereby maintaining memory. This is because memory is the "sense of self", which Millicent mentions in her dialogue in the Prayer Room; and sense of self, again, is symbolized by the Ainsel River, meaning that the river also represents memory. They clarify in their post that it's the unalloyed gold needle which is responsible for preserving Millicent's memory, since it is also what fights the rotting sickness that causes Millicent's amnesia. This summary should suffice for now; though I recommend reading their post in full. It's called "[Theory] Misinterpretations of Millicent's quest and why a seemingly arbitrary quest reward is crucial". (The most relevant part is in the comments.) https://preview.redd.it/yy1fyqbeegoa1.jpg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ae47f83b5da5ad6994502d5063be856b744f4a5 The narrative duality of the Lake of Rot is the base of the theory which I'd like to expand upon in this post. While I was writing my post on Astel's boss room, I had an idea for how the Lake of Rot might be further integrated into Ranni's story. Ranni wishes to upend the current order, and is a character who symbolizes change, and thus chaos. While she has various motivations for wanting to destroy the order, e.g. not wanting to be a puppet of the Two Fingers, another reason might be that she views it as static and unproductive. One of the major ideas communicated by gold in Elden Ring is eternity (since gold is resistant to tarnishing). But an eternal, unending order is prone to stagnation—which makes it susceptible to rotting, since rot is more likely to grow in still, stagnant waters. I was led by this train of thought into some hypothesizing on the interchangeability of colors in Elden Ring. Red, as the game suggests, is primordial gold. Originally I thought it meant that primordial gold was red-tinged gold, based on the description for Ordovis's sword. However, there is a stronger argument to be made that primordial gold is just red; evidence includes gold nanoparticles appearing red, and the alchemical view that red was the true color of gold. If red is in fact gold, and both rot and the current order represent stagnation, then the red Lake of Rot could be replaced with a lake of liquid gold, and the meaning of the trek through the lake would be preserved. In this alternative universe where the lake is gold, an Elden Ring theorist could make the reasonable argument that the colors are reversible in the opposite direction; that the gold of the lake could be replaced with scarlet rot, without the meanings of Ranni's or Millicent's quests fundamentally changing. (I find this kind of funny because I've just been explaining how the Lake of Rot signifies stagnation, i.e. things staying the same, being preserved, etc.) This was going to be a major topic in this post—how certain colors in Elden Ring might be interchangeable, and how this could potentially be used as a tool for theorizing. For example, imagining one color as another (silver as blue) might illuminate a second meaning that was obscured by the color displayed to us. However, I found this was actually not necessary, at least with respect to the Lake of Rot. However, I found this was actually not necessary, at least with respect to the Lake of Rot. The red in the lake doesn't have to be imagined as gold, because it already contains it. https://preview.redd.it/5tma5dshgeoa1.jpg?width=1912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=491378491265c7c1c7c074ad4a4ccd4a503eb481 The double narrative of the Lake of Rot is communicated through a duality of color. While both gold and rot can be viewed as representing stagnation, and thus the antagonist of both Millicent's and Ranni's stories, the more appropriate colors for each character are both included in the lake, mixed together like molten metal in a crucible. A note on another visual feature of the Lake of Rot: Since the Lake of Rot contains gold, this could in turn explain the black circles on its surface; they might be gold that's tarnished. They also resemble black holes, like the ones used by the alabaster lord in this area. Or, they might be intended to remind us of the small holes found in the disintegrating weaponry found throughout the game, e.g. the swords in Stormveil Castle. A second connecting element to Ranni's quest in the Lake of Rot is the presence of the rot basilisks. Of any character, basilisks are linked most strongly to Godwyn, since his appearance in Deeproot Depths resembles one, and is surrounded by them. In turn, the basilisks themselves appear to have taken on some of Godwyn's features, if they are not inborn traits; I am referring to the more obviously lidded eyes (when compared to the basilisks from the previous Souls games), which are visible on Godwyn's Stormveil growth. So the basilisks who represent Godwyn the Golden, and sprew tarnished gold smoke, are found inhabiting a lake containing liquid gold. Godwyn, of course, was assassinated by Ranni in the Night of the Black Knives, and represents the order of gold which Ranni opposes. So you could say that by killing the rot basilisks, you are killing mini-Godwyns, and reenacting the Knight of the Black Knives. The next thought I had has less to do with Ranni's quest and more to do with Millicent's. As Nihlus11 seemed to imply in their post, the Ainsel River is to the Lake of Rot what the unalloyed needle is to Millicent's body. I believe this is represented by the shapes of these geographic features; that the Ainsel River is the needle, and the Lake of Rot is blood. Compared to a lake, a river is long and slender, like a needle. I acknowledge that the shape of the Ainsel River as a whole is quite irregular, but the stretch of river leading to the dam is narrow and more easily comparable to a needle. (Also, the angle of the stream on the map is pretty much the same as the angle of needle, as depicted in its icon.) If the Ainsel River represents an unalloyed gold needle, though, this might oppose the interpretation that the black spots are tarnished gold, since unalloyed gold shouldn't tarnish. Unless the reason the tarnishing occurs is that the unalloyed gold is mixing with rot, and thus becoming alloyed? As for the Lake of Rot, perhaps it's intended to visually parallel a puddle of blood, since that's what the needle must contact to be effective? There are multiple sites along the Ainsel River that are inhabited by flying golden insects. These sites are correlated with ant populations, but the only consistent association is with the red corpses—which are nonetheless usually found among ants and ant eggs. Edit: I recently found that all of the sites containing the bugs have water, in addition to red corpses. There are sections with red corpses without water, that are right next to sites containing the insects, and that do not have the insects extending into these areas, which makes it seem like the insects require water and cannot stray far from it. So the consistent requirements are water + corpses. golden insects in the Ainsel River (if you enlarge the pic you can see their anatomy better) There are three golden-insect-containing sites in the Ainsel River. Again, all of these locations have red corpses and water. One is in the tunnel between the Ainsel River Well Depths site of grace, and the Ainsel River Sluice Gate; this location has a single ant, and no eggs. A second is at the start of the path that leads to the cliff overlooking the Lake of Rot; this site has ants and ant eggs. The third is the stream which I have analogized to a needle; the entrance to this area has ant eggs, but no ants. Sites with golden insects I marked with the fire symbol; the rabbit symbol on the right indicates a site with ants and red corpses, but no golden insects. I find it interesting, and persuasive, that the only place these golden insects can be found is in the Ainsel River. (This is the only place I've found them, at least.) More specifically, two of these three locations are located right next to the Lake of Rot: one is the path to its formal entrance, the other is the area before the path leading to the overlook. It's intriguing that the number of these insects varies per site; there are more of them, by far, in the tunnel leading to the Lake of Rot, than in the other two locations. They populate the entire length of the tunnel, almost like they're lighting the way and guiding you toward the lake. Again, to my knowledge, this quantity of golden insects is not found anywhere else in the Ainsel River, or in the game. The dense presence of these bugs in the tunnel leading to the Lake of Rot might be significant for more than one reason. For one, the combination of golden insects with blue water is an example of blue and gold coloring, which is one of the more important and common pairings in the game. Second, it might have something to do with the silver fireflies found on the end of the tunnel closer to the lake (the golden insects have a few similarities with fireflies, though they are visibly distinct from the gold firefly collectibles). Most important is that it gives credence to the theory presented in this post—that the Ainsel River, and especially the stream leading to the elevator before the Lake of Rot—is symbolically equivalent to the unalloyed gold needle. Perhaps the insects are responsible for the gold coloring in the lake, by laying their eggs on the still waters? (It could also have to do with the golden Numen's runes which are commonly found on ants. Additionally, in Elden Ring, eggs themselves have a notable association with gold, e.g. Rennala's amber egg.) The last topic I wanted to discuss concerns the penultimate stage of Ranni's journey—and Millicent's as well, if it is accepted that Ranni's quest is also a story about Millicent. It has to do with the ecology of Astel's boss room, which as mentioned I have previously written about. https://preview.redd.it/c96qbetzcgoa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94f56634ceae2b23d0b8d8522b3164323378c272 The scarlet rot in Astel's boss room appears to be purified. I listed a number of theories explaining how this might have occurred. There are two that I think are most likely. 1) Astel resembles a great dragonfly (Sinister Stromboli notes that he has 6 fingers like the dragons), and great dragonflies are used to make poison antidotes, so Astel may have purified the scarlet rot. 2) The drippings on the scarlet rot resemble dew, and the fungi look like they're melting. The first of these relates to the dewkissed herba, and the second relates to the melted mushrooms. Both of these are used to craft soap, and both only grow "in and near" the false night of the Eternal Cities. Since the stars of the Eternal Cities are required to grow these crops, and they are used to make soap, the stars themselves might have cleansing properties. On a thematic level, the purification of the scarlet rot in Astel's room seems to reflect the cleansing or elimination of kegare, and along with it, the following themes: progress over stagnation, differentiation, finding one's true self (by killing the vices that obscure it), and the triumph of the self over the forces that seek to dissolve it, e.g. death and memory loss. Something I was originally unsure of, was if this cleansing was primarily part of Millicent's quest, or if it was also important to Ranni's. Personally I think Ranni's victory is communicated just as well by the ascension to the Moonlight Altar after defeating Astel. So if the elevator to the Moonlight Altar already signifies Ranni's successful character development, what role does the purification of rot play in this conclusion? https://preview.redd.it/7xpydwbelqoa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edda7bbe227b63bbe11a6dc49672a693ee14b478 One thought I just had is that Ranni seems to be easily disgusted; she has a noticeably aloof and condescending tone. Her gestures, namely the steepled positioning of her hands, arguably gives off a feeling of elitism as well—though this is more subjective (and maybe it's just meant to reflect her scheming tendencies). She lives in what could be called an "ivory tower", since it's filled with books, and many of these rises are called towers explicitly. Her referring to the Two Fingers as "that thing" also indicates disgust (understandably enough, so this doesn't really say much about her general disgust sensitivity). If rot is kegare, then perhaps it's not surprising that a character high in trait disgust would seek to purify it. Second—and I think this is the more likely explanation—it might have to do with the Age of the Stars. If the theory I presented about stars having purifying properties is correct, then Ranni might be trying to cleanse the current order by exposing it to starlight. Maybe this was the plan, rather than just separating herself from the order? Even if separation was the primary ambition, though, this is still arguably a method of sanitation, since isolation, i.e. quarantine, is also effective against germs and the spread of infection. Some counterevidence for both of these theories is that Ranni seems to imply the order can't be eliminated—only moved far away, "beneath our feet." (You could say this is another association with cleanliness, since we use our feet to walk on the ground, and dirt.) I believe this ambition is actually represented on the Moonlight Altar, through the relationship between the moon seen here and the minor erdtree, which is placed conspicuously close to the moon and is actually being struck by its moon beams. I argued in my recent post that this symbolizes how even the Erdtree would become "minor" in the new order. However, I also entertained the idea that the moon beams were cutting the minor erdtree down or replacing it, so this might be compatible with the sanitation idea after all. You can see how the moon beam almost appears to replace the trunk of the minor erdtree, from certain angles. Color thoughts: The synthesis of Ranni's and Millicent's quests ties into the consistent purple and red+blue color patterns in, adjacent to, and above the Lake of Rot. (Or, this narrative synthesis might be what these coloring pairings were intended to hint at.) You could easily make the case that the red of the Lake of Rot is Millicent, and the blue of the Ainsel River is Ranni. The flowing of the blue water into the red lake would (color-theoretically) make purple. Another interpretation is that the blue river represents mind and memory, which resists rot's red, physical decay of the body and brain. A return to the topic of the golden insects: There's something similar to these bugs in the Dung Eater's room in the Roundtable Hold. At first I thought they were the same as the ones in Ainsel, but it became clear they're not as well-defined; unlike the Ainsel bugs, you can't see their wings, or really any distinct anatomy. Then I noticed that the buzzing sound (which is present near the Ainsel insects as well as in the Dung Eater's room), was more likely coming from black flies, which I hadn't noticed since they blend into the darkly lit room. So I don't know if these small golden lights are insects at all; if they're not, then I'm not sure why they are only found in the Dung Eater's corner. Maybe they have something to do with the sun emblem on his armor? I used motion blur because it makes the lights/bugs easier to see; that's why the picture looks smudged. Update: There are a few other patterns connecting Millicent's and Ranni's quests. I'll discuss the simpler of the two first, as it won't take as long to explain. This pattern is the pairing of rot with cold (either snow or ice), and the purification of the former by the latter. The second is the theme of severance. 1.) In the above text I interpreted the journey through the Ainsel River as a depiction of both Ranni's and Millicent's character arcs; but this same imagery and symbolism can be found where Millicent completes her quest. Millicent dies inside the Haligtree, where another waterfall of rot is found, along with snow or fungal spores/ash resembling snow. This is part of the drainage channel, which purifies the rot and funnels out fresh water. In my recent post on Elphael, I talked about how this combination of rot and ice is a reference to the poison that drips from the icy rivers in Norse mythology, which are called Élivágar. https://preview.redd.it/kxbgx1q10roa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b456d8cb34370b1f1e4a253d33c13540b6a865d9 Now I can see that all of these motifs—cold mixed with rot, and purification—are found in the Ainsel River and Lake of Rot as well. First, you could imagine that by moving through the Ainsel River—which in a sense she does, in her mini-doll form, and by talking to you at checkpoints throughout your trek—Ranni is freezing and neutralizing the rot. Second, the point of entry to the Ainsel River, or at least the one that is relevant to Ranni's quest, is the waygate in Renna's rise. As the theorist Queelag pointed out, 'renna' means "to melt". She likens the Ainsel River to the melted ice of the snow witch, who Ranni emulates. So again, just as in the inside of the Haligtree and drainage channel, ice and snow serve to contrast and combat rot. One more thing on this point: In Norse mythology, the poison dripping from Élivágar creates Ymir, who is the first giant or jötunn. And in Elden Ring, both rot waterfalls have giants at their bottom. In the Haligtree, these giants are Malenia and Miquella's Haligtree form; in the Lake of Rot, these are the statues of the ancient dynast holding the tablet—who I believe may have been a troll, based on the similarities pointed out to me between the trolls and the depiction of this figure. 2.) Now I'll discuss the second theme of severance. Ranni wants to kill the Two Fingers so that they cannot "pull her strings" and control her like a puppet. Seluvis tries to do the same thing; he attempts to turn her into a puppet, and this might be why she reacts so violently to his plot, killing both of you in retaliation. The weapon she uses to kill the puppeteer and cut her strings is the Fingerslayer Blade, which has a name noticeably similar to the Finger Severer, which is a multiplayer item. Millicent's story is also one of separation. To start with, I should mention the popular theory that Millicent is a component of Malenia's self—more specifically, the pride she sacrificed when facing Radahn. If true, this would make Millicent another part of Malenia that was severed from her, much like her arm. Further evidence for this theory is that there are five valkyries—the same number of fingers on a hand, which Malenia had taken from her; so the theory is that the five sisters are Malenia's five severed fingers. (I heard of this theory on the hand of Malenia from Gideon the Half-Knowing in one of his episodes of Elden Kings.) So already, Millicent is analogous to a severed limb or finger of Malenia. But the idea of severance manifests in other parts of her quest, too. If you choose to side with Millicent against her sisters, then Millicent chooses to die, retaining her individuality against the collective nature of rot which consumes Malenia and the other valkyries—thus severing her ties with them. Recall the communal nature of rot, e.g. in the Kindred of Rot's exultation. (Also, killing your family would be an example of "cutting ties", which is also an important part in Ranni's story.) If you choose the opposite route and side against Millicent, you are also continuing the pattern of severance: you are cutting the bond of trust that connects you to her, and that you have cultivated throughout her arc. (You also symbolically sever her hand as well, since you receive her prosthesis after killing her.) https://preview.redd.it/cqqo21gd2roa1.png?width=332&format=png&auto=webp&s=28e5df96e37454c6359ed12502c491c0252675e8 Gowry speaks of severance explicitly, when he implores you: "Sever that trust. Nurtured by betrayal, her bud will flower most vividly." Gowry analogizes this act of severing to pruning a flower. If you kill Gowry, he says, "O Millicent, my daughter... Who would prune your sapling flesh?". In my view, Gowry sees Millicent as a primary, central flower, in relation to auxiliary growths representing (a) her family, or (b) her weaknesses as a warrior. To address the first part: remember that Gowry favors Millicent. He says she may "outshine her sisters", and seems to think she might become more powerful than Malenia, since he says Millicent was "so close to becoming the finest of flowers." So it's possible that this pruning of Millicent, i.e. her death, is actually the clipping of the other, lesser buds from the flower (her siblings and Malenia), thus allowing the soil's nutrients to empower and nourish Millicent alone. This is in turn analogous to the dominance of one sprout over the others in tree resprouting, which the Tarnished Archaeologist has theorized about. The second interpretation is simpler, as in this view the flower is one character (Millicent), and the stems connecting to the ancillary buds and branches represent the trust that is holding her back from becoming an effective warrior. A warrior, after all, is more effective at killing when not inhibited by compassion. Moreover, in Norse mythology, the valkyries are agents of death. Alternatively, a hybrid interpretation that takes both the family and trust angles into account, is that the buds to be pruned are the people she's formed relationships with, and that the stems connecting to those people are her trust in them—i.e. the relations themselves. Thus, what must be severed is her bonds with her family and friends. (But if this were so, shouldn't Gowry view being "abandoned" by Malenia and Millicent as a good thing, and not something to despair over?) Update 2: After submitting this post, I made another submission on what kind of insect the golden bugs might be. I eventually found the answer, by trying repeatedly to get closer pictures. https://preview.redd.it/ta64j8u38uoa1.jpg?width=1911&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a169321eae4de9af730e05cf238c98d3082db98 The insects have stingers, and drooping abdomens which appear somewhat engorged like the honeypot ants. I am fully confident that the insects are smaller, golden versions of the ants, which also have wings and stingers. This makes them very similar to bees, which I think is intentional given the honeypot ants' association with honey, and honey's golden color. This provides even more support for the view that the stream leading to the Lake of Rot is meant to parallel the unalloyed gold needle, because not only are the insects in the tunnel gold, they also have stingers. A gold stinger is the same as a gold needle. It's also possible they're meant to represent Millicent and the valkyries themselves. In Norse mythology, valkyries are winged entities associated with gold; this is likely the inspiration behind Malenia's armor being gold and her character's connection to gold in general, in addition to the in-universe connection with unalloyed gold helping to cure scarlet rot. As for the stingers, these could be compared to the swords used by the valkyries. Update 3: While 'ain' means "own" in the Scots language, it actually means "eye" in some Middle Eastern languages, and is a given name. I think this is a double meaning, and references the (cut) insertion of Miquella's needle into the player character's eye when choosing to rid themselves of the Flame of Frenzy. Again, this is cut content, but I think the fact that you can only use the needle in the eye of Farum Azula's storm is like a symbolic preservation of this cut content. I wrote a post about this needle and eye symbolism which I'll link below. Link for the thumbnail: https://imgur.com/a/nAWk1Pv My post on the ecology of Astel's area: https://www.reddit.com/Eldenring/comments/1100j16/theories_on_the_ecology_and_purity_of_astels_boss/ Post on (partially about) the symbolism of the Moonlight Altar and minor erdtree: https://www.reddit.com/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/11tgg9t/the_origins_of_the_dark_moon_dependence_and/ Post about Miquella's needle and the eye of the storm: https://www.reddit.com/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/10lxmrt/why_miquellas_needle_can_only_be_used_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
2023.03.18 07:44 Friendly_Cold_8819 DLC idea's
So I have no writing skills at all this is the first time im writing in like 10 years.
i had this idea about an elden ring DLC that could make sense in the future. The DLC would be called "Lands Beyond". Now there are 3 things i want you to keep in mind while reading through this;
Now where this idea came from is that i was thinking that Marika clearly went to lands beyond to seek a lord and surely the lord of that land is strong thus, strong things were born in those lands and through time they all found their own way like "the land of reeds" or "the badlands". In my own opinion like the great tree or the crucible the planet has its own primordial powers though maybe not as strong as a force that came from the stars like the blue dancer the world i would believe has power of its own even if they are not a intimidating force by themselves. Though not super powerful i believe they would be strong enough to have their own sword monuments if war ever happened. Also because so little written about these lands and the fact that they arent really in a position to have any major influence by the golden order meaning the story can be completely detached with whats going on in the lands between and the only real connect would be how the endings affect things.
To start off the beginnings of this DLC i would think at some progression point you go back to the chapel of anticipation and a portal like when you finish a dungeon appears and takes you to a dock, maybe right behind the chapel at the bottom or something like that.
As for where you would begin in my head i think that the lands would like a horizontal continent like land mass of asia with an island body of land at the far end with ocean between the main land being the land of reeds. where you'd start would be where the element of fire or another perspective of light but they actually "praise the sun" instead of the Erdtree. Why you would start here, in my perspective the region of the sun out of all the other lands would be more accepting of a new order seeing as how bright the Erdtree shines. now whether they can see or not see the shine of the Erdtree anymore doesnt change their strong faith, and just an idea maybe where the main worship of the Erdtree is here a minor Erdtree could be growing. where you would start there would be a small tarnished hide out the same one that allowed you to sneak your way into the lands between like a "lands beyond" round table for tarnished to answer the call. I would think the first obstacle would be fighting your way out or maybe finding hidden paths out of the Erdtree worship part of the region. In my opinion with the weakening of the golden order on the lands beyond if any would be a great time for any rebels of the land of the sun to rise up which would be fitting as the land of the sun would want to burn down a false light to them like the minor Erdtree in that area. so they would have their own little civil war going on but you would have a chance for a questline to help the rebeling forces, though as you are tarnished of grace most would probably not think highly of you so you game logic you still have fights against rebels too. now surely you wouldnt be restrained to being stuck in that region so in whatever way you think of lets move to the next region.
The Badlands, in my mind i think of the bad lands as the earth element strong yet stubborn. To me i feel like there shoul dbe 3 main factions here with it being the largest region in the Lands Beyond. These 3 factions being one of the original clans, then another one that are heritage of Hoarah Loux, and lastly, this one is a stretch of the imagination but, this clan would be a beastial like shaman clan. Why the beast shamans you ask and i think it would be cool if maybe a great tree was growing at the edges of The Badlands but instead of the crazy mixed growth of the old Crucible you would have some with more tamed growth since it is a younger great tree crucible with more local animal incantations. The conflict here would be the original clans hating the tarnished clan of Hoarah Loux and the shamans hating the Erdtree for the loss of the Great tree. your questline could be something to do with all the clans.
Now with the Water element the people would be nomads so they are probably scattered through out the lands and with the whole thing with "Malenia blade of miquella" and her first bloom maybe some of her butterflies scattered to the winds and made it to the badlands giving an urgent purpose to the blind swordsmans kin to fight off the rot. im not too sure how or why they would attack you but maybe they would be the only friendly NPC's? but surely there would be rot worshippers everywhere maybe even among the warrior tribes who might worship the rot and a thought maybe along their questline you will get to fight a cool boss like a form of the Rot scorpion and maybe even meet the blind swordsman, if he lived long enough to see Malenia then its possible.
Lastly the wind and the Land of Reeds. to me the Land of Reeds would be across a sea of water like japan but the port to the main island has a strong fortress settlement already and through hard ship you would have to get fight as they aren't looking for guests of any kind. but i thought it would be cool if there was like a land bridge to an under water cave a side path you can take to get there and this could be maybe another underground city to explore or just natural underground with indigenous life. how you would get there though would be through maybe an interaction with the warrior NPC's or maybe you are advised from an NPC from the Land of Reeds that you meet at the hideout in the land of the sun where you first appear and is like a guide for you through the lands like a side maiden, and she only shows up at certain graces. once you get there i would think there wouldn't be a strong opposing rebellion like the Land of the sun but maybe the side you are helping is a hidden group wanting peace as a third party with a strong faction looking to take over the land for themselves from the mad emperor crazed by blood.
Obviously the way to get all for elements for the new endings would be to complete certain questlines to gain the primordial powers of the elements. The 3 endings i was thinking of have to do with you as the tarnished releasing your bonds from the Erdtree and gaining a new immortality where the primordial forces have chosen you as their avatar to ward off the influences of the outer gods. These endings would be;
submitted by Friendly_Cold_8819 to Eldenring [link] [comments]
i had this idea about an elden ring DLC that could make sense in the future. The DLC would be called "Lands Beyond". Now there are 3 things i want you to keep in mind while reading through this;
- I am thinking these ideas under the impression that these thing are never gonna happen. like the giants archstone, something that will never happen but its fun to think about.
- i am leaving some details vague because im not a very detailed person and also it lets ideas flow better for me.
- lastly i want you to put in you own input if possible, its a lot more fun if im not the only one thinking this.
Now where this idea came from is that i was thinking that Marika clearly went to lands beyond to seek a lord and surely the lord of that land is strong thus, strong things were born in those lands and through time they all found their own way like "the land of reeds" or "the badlands". In my own opinion like the great tree or the crucible the planet has its own primordial powers though maybe not as strong as a force that came from the stars like the blue dancer the world i would believe has power of its own even if they are not a intimidating force by themselves. Though not super powerful i believe they would be strong enough to have their own sword monuments if war ever happened. Also because so little written about these lands and the fact that they arent really in a position to have any major influence by the golden order meaning the story can be completely detached with whats going on in the lands between and the only real connect would be how the endings affect things.
To start off the beginnings of this DLC i would think at some progression point you go back to the chapel of anticipation and a portal like when you finish a dungeon appears and takes you to a dock, maybe right behind the chapel at the bottom or something like that.
As for where you would begin in my head i think that the lands would like a horizontal continent like land mass of asia with an island body of land at the far end with ocean between the main land being the land of reeds. where you'd start would be where the element of fire or another perspective of light but they actually "praise the sun" instead of the Erdtree. Why you would start here, in my perspective the region of the sun out of all the other lands would be more accepting of a new order seeing as how bright the Erdtree shines. now whether they can see or not see the shine of the Erdtree anymore doesnt change their strong faith, and just an idea maybe where the main worship of the Erdtree is here a minor Erdtree could be growing. where you would start there would be a small tarnished hide out the same one that allowed you to sneak your way into the lands between like a "lands beyond" round table for tarnished to answer the call. I would think the first obstacle would be fighting your way out or maybe finding hidden paths out of the Erdtree worship part of the region. In my opinion with the weakening of the golden order on the lands beyond if any would be a great time for any rebels of the land of the sun to rise up which would be fitting as the land of the sun would want to burn down a false light to them like the minor Erdtree in that area. so they would have their own little civil war going on but you would have a chance for a questline to help the rebeling forces, though as you are tarnished of grace most would probably not think highly of you so you game logic you still have fights against rebels too. now surely you wouldnt be restrained to being stuck in that region so in whatever way you think of lets move to the next region.
The Badlands, in my mind i think of the bad lands as the earth element strong yet stubborn. To me i feel like there shoul dbe 3 main factions here with it being the largest region in the Lands Beyond. These 3 factions being one of the original clans, then another one that are heritage of Hoarah Loux, and lastly, this one is a stretch of the imagination but, this clan would be a beastial like shaman clan. Why the beast shamans you ask and i think it would be cool if maybe a great tree was growing at the edges of The Badlands but instead of the crazy mixed growth of the old Crucible you would have some with more tamed growth since it is a younger great tree crucible with more local animal incantations. The conflict here would be the original clans hating the tarnished clan of Hoarah Loux and the shamans hating the Erdtree for the loss of the Great tree. your questline could be something to do with all the clans.
Now with the Water element the people would be nomads so they are probably scattered through out the lands and with the whole thing with "Malenia blade of miquella" and her first bloom maybe some of her butterflies scattered to the winds and made it to the badlands giving an urgent purpose to the blind swordsmans kin to fight off the rot. im not too sure how or why they would attack you but maybe they would be the only friendly NPC's? but surely there would be rot worshippers everywhere maybe even among the warrior tribes who might worship the rot and a thought maybe along their questline you will get to fight a cool boss like a form of the Rot scorpion and maybe even meet the blind swordsman, if he lived long enough to see Malenia then its possible.
Lastly the wind and the Land of Reeds. to me the Land of Reeds would be across a sea of water like japan but the port to the main island has a strong fortress settlement already and through hard ship you would have to get fight as they aren't looking for guests of any kind. but i thought it would be cool if there was like a land bridge to an under water cave a side path you can take to get there and this could be maybe another underground city to explore or just natural underground with indigenous life. how you would get there though would be through maybe an interaction with the warrior NPC's or maybe you are advised from an NPC from the Land of Reeds that you meet at the hideout in the land of the sun where you first appear and is like a guide for you through the lands like a side maiden, and she only shows up at certain graces. once you get there i would think there wouldn't be a strong opposing rebellion like the Land of the sun but maybe the side you are helping is a hidden group wanting peace as a third party with a strong faction looking to take over the land for themselves from the mad emperor crazed by blood.
Obviously the way to get all for elements for the new endings would be to complete certain questlines to gain the primordial powers of the elements. The 3 endings i was thinking of have to do with you as the tarnished releasing your bonds from the Erdtree and gaining a new immortality where the primordial forces have chosen you as their avatar to ward off the influences of the outer gods. These endings would be;
- if you choose the morally correct one then it would lead you to becoming an eternal guardian of the planet awakening like a revenant to ward off the outer gods again.
- evil ending where you become a tyrant of the lands and are now the single God of the planet eventually becoming strong enough to maybe one day to become your own outer god.
- neutral ending through specific scenarios you give all the power you have accumulated to the powers of the elements to grow and become their own guardians that can ward off the outer gods and then fade away with life in death no longer holding you.
Now onto some finer details, such as the idea of the elements. Keep in mind these are all just ideas im throwing out there so dont think that these are my final thoughts just ideas to build upon or set for possible changes. To me the elements will all have a type of idea attached to it like land of fire being tied to the sun and is a representation of light and the tribes of the warriors being tied to water being waves and rivers which cross through all the lands beyond thus they stay forever moving and nomadic and maybe even have attatchments to the moon.Then there's the badlands which is earth but rather than a visual or natural force to revere they are more like stout warriors of the land stubborn, strong, and in their way possibly a natural part of the cycle of the wildlife of the badlands where the strong survive. Lastly is the land of reeds which would be the element of the wind, light on their feet but a strong determination to push forward through everything. Though in their ambitions to move forward going into madness in perfecting their arts led to a new age of wind for them which is a raging chaotic torrent that bleeds all caught in its influence.
So starting off with the land of the sun there are 2 sides one that worships the erdtree as their physical form of the sun and their light, making they're region the most influenced by the light of the Erdtree. It also be cool if in this part of the land of the sun a seed of the erdtree had grown in their place of worship a seed that reached far from when the shattering began as their pillar of faith with the mist coming and obscuring the light of the erdtree this minor erdtree would be their beacon to those locals of the land of the sun who still worship the erdtree and the 2 fingers. As for the other half of this region the traditional believer in the sun above in the sky who see the erdtree as an invader still and won't accept it, the obscuring of the Erdtree tree with the mist would be an opportunity to finally retake all their lands. To me the side of the rebellion would hold a flame different from the ruinous flame, one cultivated through a more primitive belief that of the sun rather than a red flame or a madening frenzy yellow, it would be a bright orange flame with a hint of slight gold within showing that in the beginning there was already strong potential for servitude of the land of the sun's people. Although their flame maybe not a immediate threat to the Erdtree itself upon the mist appearing it could be the inspiration to for the rebels to find a way to at the very least burn the minor Erdtree as a milestone of their faith to the sun. The shattering has happened over many hundreds of years but for the lands beyond its probably hundreds of generations. With that amount of time of conflict surely the rebellion has cultivated greater strength through their commitment to their beliefs, I would think it would be a great opportunity to bring back a Dark souls reference where the rebellion creates a lightening bolt of sunlight. This would be a great symbol that they are fully determined to fight back against the Erdtree. One other thing is that every region should have their own wildlife but also their own majestic beast that matches the element and faith of the land. For the land of the sun I was thinking its could be a fire giant but not worshipping the ruinous flame but rather a clean torso with a mark of the sun worshipping the sun instead. It could also be maybe like a bright orange eagle that can set itself aflame or a lion of some sort too maybe a twist like cerberus but instead it's a hell hound for the aspect of the sun. Onto the badlands now which would represent earth. The Badlands would be the largest region of the lands beyond and Godfrey's kinsmen. To me there would be like 3 main factions here one faction being the original clans of the bad lands then the kinsmen of Hoarah Loux the king of the battlefield. The conflict between them would simply be that the strongest are the most honorable and who better to be a worthy opponent than the kin of the first elden lord. As for the third faction I think of the badlands as survival of the fittest and honor in battle. All life here is mixed to together animal and all are part of this life leading to to a idea I think would be cool. What if there was a sprout of the crucible here, the great tree. This faction clan of the badlands would be shamans of the beastial powers having incantations that aren't completely mixed but more native to the badlands. Some shamans have given away their human forms like the those who go too far into dragon worship and thus they become some kind of were-animal. Their conflict would be with Hoarah Loux's kin because of the history of the Great tree, but also the only thing the original clans would see is another worthy opponent. Thus a battle between 3 clans. It would be cool if the majestic beast of the bad lands was in an underground cavern or even like a fissure in the earth a place no dares to go thus they challenge a true force of nature. Maybe this place would be home and guarded by the shamans too as the majestic beast would be the greatest form of pure life to them. The beast could be maybe an even more ancient tree that is alive or maybe a bull or and actual dinosaur. Though my favorite idea would be maybe it is an ancient dragon like stone scales and everything from dragons during the age of the crucible who parted from its home in search of solitude or something. Maybe around the badlands there are spawn of the dragon maybe from the worship of the shamans created. Land dragons, they would have stone skin but simply stone from the earth but in giving up wings they have a longer life span maybe. Instead of fire and lightening they can dig there heads into the earth creating powerful Shockwave and rock formations. Now the water element wouldn't have a specific land they would probably mostly reside in the badlands but traveling across the lands. I think they would know certain places exist places no one but them knows. As for enemies I'm thinking maybe since the first bloom of Malenia possibly some aeonian butterflies found a way to glide into the lands beyond and maybe they reawaken a sealed rot from the badlands. Maybe stories of malenia inspired them and through misinterpreted stories some warriors praise the rot. There could possibly be some corruption from the Land of Reeds falling to the madness of blood rather than flowing water it's flowing blood. As for the majestic beast maybe it is a water spirit of a sort of maybe a snake or serpent of some sort not many ideas I can think of here though maybe a deer or wolf could be really cool too. As for the land of wind, the land of reeds, maybe there's 2 lords fighting to overtake the blood maddened emporer but are in their cold war of their own behind the scenes. With one secret faction that that wants to defeat all 3 leaders to end the madness at the head and slowly fix everything. To me it would be really cool if the secret faction had something to do with Sakura trees like "the Sakura tree has not bloomed since the start of the war" or something. As for the 2 lords looking to take over both could have their own signature skill one being of lightening and the other of fire and maybe somewhere down the line the one with fire slowly turns into a flame from his own blood, if the formless mother is involved. The emporer could have glimpsed into some study of the stars and someway found the red star in the void. With the secret faction being strong in sword wind form techniques. Not much to say here as the land of reeds would probably have the most indepth conflict of the Lands Beyond. As for the majestic beast I can't think of it being anything other than the Easter version of their dragon and I'm sure you guys have similar or more thoughts on how that would go, but another idea I had would be maybe it is an eternal warrior who lives within the breeze of the wind. That would be a cool twist and/or maybe the dragon serpent of the wind is a homage to Dark souls series with the first son of gwyn. There are a lot of things I wanna say more like how maybe a death root of godwyn broke and reached the Lands Beyond, how sorceries could be made from each of these regions, or how a confessors faction could be really cool through out the lands now locked in combat with everyone or they are hunting tarnished who have abandoned the call. Maybe there's an eternal city here somewhere too but what do you guys think. Just remember have fun with it, the idea of this happening in any capacity is probably never gonna happen so just have fun with the idea.
2023.03.18 03:57 Flunkiebubs My take on the Age of Duskborn - Godwyn becomes the Erdtree
The Elden Ring is the Erdtree, the two entities are one-and-the-same.
In Fia's dialogue she says that "Godwyn shall be granted a second glorious life, as the Prince of Death" She then lays with his corpse and absorbs what's left of his essence (His Grace), gestating that into The Mending Rune of The Death Prince, you can then forge that rune into The Elden Ring to bring about the Age of Duskborn.
Look at The Elden Ring in this ending, The Rune of The Death Prince sits at the bottom half of The Elden Ring - Have you ever paid attention to the design on The Elden Ring? It kinda looks like a tree, right? And The Rune of The Death Prince is positioned directly beneath the tree, exactly where Godwyn's corpse is.
The Erdtree is The Elden Ring, and The Elden Ring is the metaphysical manifestation of all reality and the laws which govern it. The Mending Rune of The Death Prince is Godwyn, meaning that in this ending you have literally made Godwyn part of The Elden Ring, and therefor also The Erdtree.
Godwyn is now an inherent part of nature, souls of the dead that pass through The Erdtree now also pass through Godwyn, his lovecraftian form will fully integrate into The Erdtree and deathroot will spread across the full expanse of its root system, consuming all the minor Erdtrees as well.
Living In Death is now a divine state of being, Those Who Live In Death will be granted grace, they will be both truly alive & dead simultaneously, Undeath is now fully integrated into The Golden Order. I think his twisted face will eventually appear on the trunk of The Erdtree, that would be cool.
submitted by Flunkiebubs to Eldenring [link] [comments]
In Fia's dialogue she says that "Godwyn shall be granted a second glorious life, as the Prince of Death" She then lays with his corpse and absorbs what's left of his essence (His Grace), gestating that into The Mending Rune of The Death Prince, you can then forge that rune into The Elden Ring to bring about the Age of Duskborn.
Look at The Elden Ring in this ending, The Rune of The Death Prince sits at the bottom half of The Elden Ring - Have you ever paid attention to the design on The Elden Ring? It kinda looks like a tree, right? And The Rune of The Death Prince is positioned directly beneath the tree, exactly where Godwyn's corpse is.
The Erdtree is The Elden Ring, and The Elden Ring is the metaphysical manifestation of all reality and the laws which govern it. The Mending Rune of The Death Prince is Godwyn, meaning that in this ending you have literally made Godwyn part of The Elden Ring, and therefor also The Erdtree.
Godwyn is now an inherent part of nature, souls of the dead that pass through The Erdtree now also pass through Godwyn, his lovecraftian form will fully integrate into The Erdtree and deathroot will spread across the full expanse of its root system, consuming all the minor Erdtrees as well.
Living In Death is now a divine state of being, Those Who Live In Death will be granted grace, they will be both truly alive & dead simultaneously, Undeath is now fully integrated into The Golden Order. I think his twisted face will eventually appear on the trunk of The Erdtree, that would be cool.
2023.03.18 02:17 2ekken Revan, the Warrior of the Crucible
 | Revan was a warrior that was trained to wield the Aspects of the Crucible by, the Crucible Knight, Siluria and once he mastered them, he was regarded as an honorary Crucible Knight and vowed as such at the Minor Erdtree Church. Following the exile of the Tarnished from the Lands Between and their eventually return, he would be granted grace once more to fight for throne of Elden Lord. While traveling to get his bearing on the land as things have changed since he last saw them, he would encounter a warrior of the Golden Order named D who would later introduce Revan to a peculiar Beastman named Gurranq. From Gurranq he would learn a new type of incantations that drew power from beasts. Revan would go on to fight for his right to the throne. submitted by 2ekken to EldenBling [link] [comments] |
2023.03.18 00:52 5pinkphantom [ps5/4] Level 68 summoning at the eastern minor erdtree in Caelid for the Putrid Avatar boss password is kh22
At the summoning pool
submitted by 5pinkphantom to BeyondTheFog [link] [comments]
2023.03.17 16:19 Dryadversity Why the moon turns dark, how the moons communicate themes of dependence and independence, and more Moonlight Altar analysis
Dependence and Independence
In one of my recent posts, I talked about how the trigger for getting the Dark Moon to appear consistently in Liurnia (in lieu of the regular moon) is the release of the Rune of Death.
A few ideas I had were the mirrored transitions from shiny, metallic colors—the Erdtree's gold and the moon's silver—to what I argued were both primordial colors: red and blue. I also speculated that the Dark Moon could be the result of the normal moon igniting from the Flame of Ruin, since Liurnia is (a) the only place the Dark Moon can be seen, and (b) the only place the moon can be made to visually contact the Erdtree. So the idea was that the moon caught the flame of the Erdtree, and consequently turned a darker, charred color.
I didn't mention the most straightforward explanation, because it didn't occur to me at the time. I already knew that the Erdtree was a metaphorical sun, and that its conjoining with the moon in Liurnia (which can be seen at the Church of Vows) is analogous to an eclipse. But I didn't take the next logical step: that if the Erdtree is the sun, and the moon reflects the sun's light, then the inhibition of the Erdtree's light would necessarily darken the moon, because the former is the light source for the latter.
the fully burning Erdtree and Dark Moon
Others may have already made this point or approximated it in theories concerning the meaning and themes behind the Age of the Stars. But the fact that the Dark Moon becomes a fully realized, consistent presence at the exact moment the Erdtree fully burns, is further confirmation of this view.
Something intriguing about the dimming of the moon is that the source of the moon's light, in real life, is fire, or something similar to it—more technically it's gases and nuclear fusion. But in Elden Ring, the sun/Erdtree was already luminous without fire; fire is instead what puts out the light of the moon, i.e. what extinguishes it. The light of the moon, realistically the result of fire, is extinguished by setting the Erdtree aflame. I find this an interesting subversion and paradox. (It does however clash with the idea of the Dark Moon being burned.)
Thus, the regular moon and Dark Moon are dependent on the light of the Erdtree. (By the way, these moons are almost certainly the same entity since neither can be seen at the same time, and they occupy the exact same place in the sky.) This allows for an interesting contrast with the third moon in the game, i.e. the one that appears above the Moonlight Altar.
I was thinking earlier about how this moon might be Rennala's moon. This was a theory I had sometimes just assumed, before eventually realizing it makes no sense. For one thing, the Moonlight Altar moon is not a full moon, which is how Rennala's moon is described, and how it appears in its item description. Second, if we presume this moon is reflecting the light of the Erdtree like the others, then why is it that this moon is the brightest, despite the Erdtree being less visible here, with less intense light?
The (half-burned) Erdtree, highly obscured on the Moonlight Altar
I showed in my previous post how there are three different moons in the game, each having a distinct brightness, which map onto the three states of the Erdtree—which also have three levels of brightness (uninjured, slightly burning, fully burning). In one pairing I presented, the bright moon of the Moonlight Altar matches with the golden, uninjured Erdtree. The issue this presents is that even though these manifestations of the Erdtree and moon seem to go together, the light of the undamaged Erdtree is less visible on the Moonlight Altar, likely due to the thick blue fog surrounding it. (It is also snowing on the Altar, so maybe the Altar is in the clouds? It is at a higher elevation than the surrounding land, after all.) So the theory of the moon reflecting the Erdtree's light seems to fail in this case.
If we could expect any moon in the game to be interdependent with the Erdtree, it would be Rennala's. Radagon wed her, which was symbolized by the merging of the Erdtree with the moon, and the acceptance of the moon into the Golden Order. I learned about the connection between the Golden Order and the full moon, in particular, from chokutskobavra's post about a week ago.
What I concluded from this apparent paradox, other than that the third moon is definitely not Rennala's, is that this moon is independent of the Erdtree. It is also independent of the other moons, which I'll explain first, briefly.
As I mentioned above, the Dark Moon and regular moon are alternative manifestations of the same object, since they appear in the same place in the sky, and cannot both be seen at once. If I remember right, you can even see the normal moon replacing the Dark Moon and vice-versa. This makes the moon at the Moonlight Altar completely unique, and separate.
With respect to its independence from the Erdtree, the fact that the Moonlight Altar has the brightest moon, yet is shrouded from the Erdtree's light, led me to the conclusion that it must create its own light. (Also, the fact that the moon is visible, with the light of the Erdtree greatly reduced, makes me think this could also be an indirect representation of an eclipse.) This is likely one reason we see moon beams here; I think it's meant to show how the moon is so bright that it physically can't contain its innate luminosity. Similar to how we can only see celestial objects that are of sufficient optical intensity, in Elden Ring we only see this special kind of moonlight if the moon is bright enough.
It could also be said that it's overflowing with light, similar to how the Erdtree would drip with sap in the Age of Plenty. I believe that in addition to symbolizing Ranni's Two Fingers (mentioned in a different post), the blue shards of light are something like moon sap. This ties into the idea that the moon is a replacement for the Erdtree. Moreover, it complements the pairing of starlight shards with amber starlight shards: amber is hardened sap... and it now seems likely that the regular starlight shards—of which the moon beams of the Moonlight Altar and Three Sisters are larger versions—might also be sap. Recall that Sellen describes glintstone, which comes from stars, as the "amber of the cosmos."
https://preview.redd.it/pxoqeatjgboa1.jpg?width=764&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=300182e687cae931b372b55191ff8eeed8b6931f
With respect to what this could mean thematically, I think the most likely answer is that it has to do with Ranni's journey of self-differentiation and independence. I talked about in my previous post how the moon beams are more distinct and easier to differentiate than the light beams of the Erdtree. The Erdtree beams (some of them, at least) are the exact opposite in that they are ambiguous; sometimes they look like one single ray, and other times they look like two that are parallel. (I added better pictures showing this to that original post if you read it before I made that edit.) I also talked about how Ranni differentiates herself from her family, the Golden Order (and pretty much everything else in her life), and how the Ainsel River parallels this theme, since 'ainsel' means "myself".
Of course, the Moonlight Altar is the final destination in Ranni's quest. Since it represents the pinnacle of her self-differentiation (preceded by the dramatic and cathartic ascension from Astel's area), it is entirely fitting that the moon in this area is a uniquely independent, self-sufficient entity.
Crazy speculation on the moon being a tree
There's one other idea I wanted to share in this post. I've compared the moon to the Erdtree in that both seem capable of producing sap, and even sometimes overflow with it. This is far from the first connection/parallel between the moon and Erdtree; as mentioned, the moon and Erdtree change at the same time in response to the unsealing of the Rune of Death, and both the Erdtree and moon emit unique rays of light. There are numerous other connections besides these.
Though it might seem odd, it would make a surprising amount of sense if the moon was also, in some way, a tree. First, you may recall that the Dark Moon Greatsword contains what appears to be a tree. So this is another example of trees and moons being related (or perhaps equated).
3D printing design of the Dark Moon Greatsword by Aguilar Workshop
Consider this visual experiment. If the Erdtree is the sun, then it can be said that the sun becomes the Erdtree. In this view, a circular, celestial body becomes a tree, like the Erdtree growing from the Elden Ring. What would happen if this process were applied to the moon? Perhaps the circular, celestial moon would also become a tree.
https://preview.redd.it/i6ts6o0nidoa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7d67c10ad130968df9247b17f25ef3f4684dcc8
There's also the placement of the moon-globe in front of this Erdtree relief in the entrance to the Carian Study Hall. The moon of course turns upside down when placing the inverted statue on the altar, but there could be more to this. Quelaag interprets the placement of the tree behind the rotating moon as a representation of the flipping of the axis mundi, i.e. the World Tree, of which Yggdrasil is one example, along with the Erdtree. This might be it; or, it could have something to do with Rennala and Radagon's marriage dissolving, if the union of the Erdtree and moon is flipped upside down (I'm aware the tree relief stays upright in both orentations, however). In any case, if there is a stronger connection between the Erdtree and moon, I think this synthesis of the two in the Carian Study Hall has something to do with it.
The moon being a tree—perhaps the Crucible—might explain the parallelism between Ranni's ending and the apparent tilting of the world order toward the Crucible. (A prime example of this is the Frenzied Flame ending, in which the Crucible appears to survive.) Nearly everything in the game has some connection to the Crucible, and implies that the age of the Crucible is going to return. The other major alternative to the Erdtree is the Age of the Stars; both endings involve eschewing the Erdtree. In fact, they are the only two that involve a complete separation from the Erdtree.
Returning briefly to the Dark Moon Greatsword: it would more particularly good sense if the tree in this sword was the Crucible because, as I have argued in prior posts, the Dark Moon is a force that seeks to "behead" the Erdtree, leaving the stump, i.e. the Crucible, behind. (This is what we see in the Frenzied Flame ending.)
The Age of the Stars is celestial, while the age of the Crucible is terrestrial. It may be the case that they are intentionally different, and represent very different realities. But there is another hint they might be related: the Primeval Current. I think this could be the connecting force between the two. The Primeval Current seems like it has some relation to the Primordial Crucible. 'Primeval' and 'primordial' mean the same thing, and both words in each term also start with the same letters: "PC". Both the Primeval Current and Crucible share a consistent spiral motif, likely representing the melting of things together in the latter, and the spiraling torrent of stars in the former. And we see this spiral appear on the moon in the Age of the Stars ending.
I'd like to think this theory is true, and that the moon and Crucible might in some way be the same entity. Still, I suppose the symbolic comparison of the moon and Crucible might be valid, even if the moon and Crucible are not the same thing. It's also possible they're intended to be metaphorical equivalents, only.
The minor erdtree of the Moonlight Altar
I'd rather not make a separate post about this, so I'll append the idea to the end of this post.
On the Moonlight Altar, you can see that the moon is close to a minor erdtree, and that a few of the moon beams contact this tree.
the minor erdtree by the Moonlight Altar
At least one especially close beam is penetrating the foliage of the tree; more moon vs. tree conflict. (Keep in mind that the large moon beams are larger versions of starlight shards, and shards can be used as blades.) From certain angles the light beam appears to replace the trunk of the tree itself—this is another depiction of the moon and tree becoming one entity.
I think this scene is another representation of the moon's dominance over the Erdtree. I posit this particular minor erdtree is like doll-version of the Erdtree, and is meant to show how small an influence the Erdtree will be in the Age of the Stars. When describing the age she wishes to bring about, Ranni says she would keep the Order far away, "beneath our feet." This brings to mind the image of standing among the moon and stars, looking down at the Earth. From this view, even the largest tree would appear miniscule, or minor; and I think that's what this interaction between the moon and minor erdtree is meant to communicate.
By the way, one thing that leads me to believe this scene was designed intentionally, with the aim of communicating the ideas speculated above, is that the minor erdtree is completely visible and unobscured here, unlike the Erdtree.
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In one of my recent posts, I talked about how the trigger for getting the Dark Moon to appear consistently in Liurnia (in lieu of the regular moon) is the release of the Rune of Death.
A few ideas I had were the mirrored transitions from shiny, metallic colors—the Erdtree's gold and the moon's silver—to what I argued were both primordial colors: red and blue. I also speculated that the Dark Moon could be the result of the normal moon igniting from the Flame of Ruin, since Liurnia is (a) the only place the Dark Moon can be seen, and (b) the only place the moon can be made to visually contact the Erdtree. So the idea was that the moon caught the flame of the Erdtree, and consequently turned a darker, charred color.
I didn't mention the most straightforward explanation, because it didn't occur to me at the time. I already knew that the Erdtree was a metaphorical sun, and that its conjoining with the moon in Liurnia (which can be seen at the Church of Vows) is analogous to an eclipse. But I didn't take the next logical step: that if the Erdtree is the sun, and the moon reflects the sun's light, then the inhibition of the Erdtree's light would necessarily darken the moon, because the former is the light source for the latter.
the fully burning Erdtree and Dark Moon
Others may have already made this point or approximated it in theories concerning the meaning and themes behind the Age of the Stars. But the fact that the Dark Moon becomes a fully realized, consistent presence at the exact moment the Erdtree fully burns, is further confirmation of this view.
Something intriguing about the dimming of the moon is that the source of the moon's light, in real life, is fire, or something similar to it—more technically it's gases and nuclear fusion. But in Elden Ring, the sun/Erdtree was already luminous without fire; fire is instead what puts out the light of the moon, i.e. what extinguishes it. The light of the moon, realistically the result of fire, is extinguished by setting the Erdtree aflame. I find this an interesting subversion and paradox. (It does however clash with the idea of the Dark Moon being burned.)
Thus, the regular moon and Dark Moon are dependent on the light of the Erdtree. (By the way, these moons are almost certainly the same entity since neither can be seen at the same time, and they occupy the exact same place in the sky.) This allows for an interesting contrast with the third moon in the game, i.e. the one that appears above the Moonlight Altar.
I was thinking earlier about how this moon might be Rennala's moon. This was a theory I had sometimes just assumed, before eventually realizing it makes no sense. For one thing, the Moonlight Altar moon is not a full moon, which is how Rennala's moon is described, and how it appears in its item description. Second, if we presume this moon is reflecting the light of the Erdtree like the others, then why is it that this moon is the brightest, despite the Erdtree being less visible here, with less intense light?
The (half-burned) Erdtree, highly obscured on the Moonlight Altar
I showed in my previous post how there are three different moons in the game, each having a distinct brightness, which map onto the three states of the Erdtree—which also have three levels of brightness (uninjured, slightly burning, fully burning). In one pairing I presented, the bright moon of the Moonlight Altar matches with the golden, uninjured Erdtree. The issue this presents is that even though these manifestations of the Erdtree and moon seem to go together, the light of the undamaged Erdtree is less visible on the Moonlight Altar, likely due to the thick blue fog surrounding it. (It is also snowing on the Altar, so maybe the Altar is in the clouds? It is at a higher elevation than the surrounding land, after all.) So the theory of the moon reflecting the Erdtree's light seems to fail in this case.
If we could expect any moon in the game to be interdependent with the Erdtree, it would be Rennala's. Radagon wed her, which was symbolized by the merging of the Erdtree with the moon, and the acceptance of the moon into the Golden Order. I learned about the connection between the Golden Order and the full moon, in particular, from chokutskobavra's post about a week ago.
What I concluded from this apparent paradox, other than that the third moon is definitely not Rennala's, is that this moon is independent of the Erdtree. It is also independent of the other moons, which I'll explain first, briefly.
As I mentioned above, the Dark Moon and regular moon are alternative manifestations of the same object, since they appear in the same place in the sky, and cannot both be seen at once. If I remember right, you can even see the normal moon replacing the Dark Moon and vice-versa. This makes the moon at the Moonlight Altar completely unique, and separate.
With respect to its independence from the Erdtree, the fact that the Moonlight Altar has the brightest moon, yet is shrouded from the Erdtree's light, led me to the conclusion that it must create its own light. (Also, the fact that the moon is visible, with the light of the Erdtree greatly reduced, makes me think this could also be an indirect representation of an eclipse.) This is likely one reason we see moon beams here; I think it's meant to show how the moon is so bright that it physically can't contain its innate luminosity. Similar to how we can only see celestial objects that are of sufficient optical intensity, in Elden Ring we only see this special kind of moonlight if the moon is bright enough.
It could also be said that it's overflowing with light, similar to how the Erdtree would drip with sap in the Age of Plenty. I believe that in addition to symbolizing Ranni's Two Fingers (mentioned in a different post), the blue shards of light are something like moon sap. This ties into the idea that the moon is a replacement for the Erdtree. Moreover, it complements the pairing of starlight shards with amber starlight shards: amber is hardened sap... and it now seems likely that the regular starlight shards—of which the moon beams of the Moonlight Altar and Three Sisters are larger versions—might also be sap. Recall that Sellen describes glintstone, which comes from stars, as the "amber of the cosmos."
https://preview.redd.it/pxoqeatjgboa1.jpg?width=764&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=300182e687cae931b372b55191ff8eeed8b6931f
With respect to what this could mean thematically, I think the most likely answer is that it has to do with Ranni's journey of self-differentiation and independence. I talked about in my previous post how the moon beams are more distinct and easier to differentiate than the light beams of the Erdtree. The Erdtree beams (some of them, at least) are the exact opposite in that they are ambiguous; sometimes they look like one single ray, and other times they look like two that are parallel. (I added better pictures showing this to that original post if you read it before I made that edit.) I also talked about how Ranni differentiates herself from her family, the Golden Order (and pretty much everything else in her life), and how the Ainsel River parallels this theme, since 'ainsel' means "myself".
Of course, the Moonlight Altar is the final destination in Ranni's quest. Since it represents the pinnacle of her self-differentiation (preceded by the dramatic and cathartic ascension from Astel's area), it is entirely fitting that the moon in this area is a uniquely independent, self-sufficient entity.
Crazy speculation on the moon being a tree
There's one other idea I wanted to share in this post. I've compared the moon to the Erdtree in that both seem capable of producing sap, and even sometimes overflow with it. This is far from the first connection/parallel between the moon and Erdtree; as mentioned, the moon and Erdtree change at the same time in response to the unsealing of the Rune of Death, and both the Erdtree and moon emit unique rays of light. There are numerous other connections besides these.
Though it might seem odd, it would make a surprising amount of sense if the moon was also, in some way, a tree. First, you may recall that the Dark Moon Greatsword contains what appears to be a tree. So this is another example of trees and moons being related (or perhaps equated).
3D printing design of the Dark Moon Greatsword by Aguilar Workshop
Consider this visual experiment. If the Erdtree is the sun, then it can be said that the sun becomes the Erdtree. In this view, a circular, celestial body becomes a tree, like the Erdtree growing from the Elden Ring. What would happen if this process were applied to the moon? Perhaps the circular, celestial moon would also become a tree.
https://preview.redd.it/i6ts6o0nidoa1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7d67c10ad130968df9247b17f25ef3f4684dcc8
There's also the placement of the moon-globe in front of this Erdtree relief in the entrance to the Carian Study Hall. The moon of course turns upside down when placing the inverted statue on the altar, but there could be more to this. Quelaag interprets the placement of the tree behind the rotating moon as a representation of the flipping of the axis mundi, i.e. the World Tree, of which Yggdrasil is one example, along with the Erdtree. This might be it; or, it could have something to do with Rennala and Radagon's marriage dissolving, if the union of the Erdtree and moon is flipped upside down (I'm aware the tree relief stays upright in both orentations, however). In any case, if there is a stronger connection between the Erdtree and moon, I think this synthesis of the two in the Carian Study Hall has something to do with it.
The moon being a tree—perhaps the Crucible—might explain the parallelism between Ranni's ending and the apparent tilting of the world order toward the Crucible. (A prime example of this is the Frenzied Flame ending, in which the Crucible appears to survive.) Nearly everything in the game has some connection to the Crucible, and implies that the age of the Crucible is going to return. The other major alternative to the Erdtree is the Age of the Stars; both endings involve eschewing the Erdtree. In fact, they are the only two that involve a complete separation from the Erdtree.
Returning briefly to the Dark Moon Greatsword: it would more particularly good sense if the tree in this sword was the Crucible because, as I have argued in prior posts, the Dark Moon is a force that seeks to "behead" the Erdtree, leaving the stump, i.e. the Crucible, behind. (This is what we see in the Frenzied Flame ending.)
The Age of the Stars is celestial, while the age of the Crucible is terrestrial. It may be the case that they are intentionally different, and represent very different realities. But there is another hint they might be related: the Primeval Current. I think this could be the connecting force between the two. The Primeval Current seems like it has some relation to the Primordial Crucible. 'Primeval' and 'primordial' mean the same thing, and both words in each term also start with the same letters: "PC". Both the Primeval Current and Crucible share a consistent spiral motif, likely representing the melting of things together in the latter, and the spiraling torrent of stars in the former. And we see this spiral appear on the moon in the Age of the Stars ending.
I'd like to think this theory is true, and that the moon and Crucible might in some way be the same entity. Still, I suppose the symbolic comparison of the moon and Crucible might be valid, even if the moon and Crucible are not the same thing. It's also possible they're intended to be metaphorical equivalents, only.
The minor erdtree of the Moonlight Altar
I'd rather not make a separate post about this, so I'll append the idea to the end of this post.
On the Moonlight Altar, you can see that the moon is close to a minor erdtree, and that a few of the moon beams contact this tree.
the minor erdtree by the Moonlight Altar
At least one especially close beam is penetrating the foliage of the tree; more moon vs. tree conflict. (Keep in mind that the large moon beams are larger versions of starlight shards, and shards can be used as blades.) From certain angles the light beam appears to replace the trunk of the tree itself—this is another depiction of the moon and tree becoming one entity.
I think this scene is another representation of the moon's dominance over the Erdtree. I posit this particular minor erdtree is like doll-version of the Erdtree, and is meant to show how small an influence the Erdtree will be in the Age of the Stars. When describing the age she wishes to bring about, Ranni says she would keep the Order far away, "beneath our feet." This brings to mind the image of standing among the moon and stars, looking down at the Earth. From this view, even the largest tree would appear miniscule, or minor; and I think that's what this interaction between the moon and minor erdtree is meant to communicate.
By the way, one thing that leads me to believe this scene was designed intentionally, with the aim of communicating the ideas speculated above, is that the minor erdtree is completely visible and unobscured here, unlike the Erdtree.
2023.03.17 09:48 Complete-Law-9439 So... anyone want to poke some holes in a pair of lore theories of mine?
Theory one: Melina's siblings are not Malenia and Miquella, but rather Mohg and Morgott.
So I know everyone thinks Melina's the sister to Malenia and Miquella... but I think there's someone else she's more likely to be related to considering how likely it is that she's the Gloam Eyed Queen.... Why couldn't she be a sister to Mohg and Morgott? I know, she doesn't have horns, but hear me out.
So, there's a fair bit suggesting that Morgott at least, and possibly Mohg as well, weren't hated when they were first born. Godfrey at least obviously cared for Morgott way more than someone you wouldn't really see after abandoning for a lifetime in the sewers, Mohg and him act in an "upper class" manor that doesn't really fit people abandoned at birth to live in sewers, and there's some hints in general that maybe the Crucible knights, misbegotten, etc. may not have been hated when Marika first became a goddess. Hell, I think it may be possible that during the Age of Plenty, which does seem to be a different age than the Age of the Erdtree, might also have been when the Erdtree as we know it was given a different, rather lore-important name: the Crucible.
Instead, that hatred for all things non-human may have begun later on... say after someone had created the Godskins and declared war on the Gods. Think about it, the Godskins are pretty clearly Albinaurics, just better made ones than the kind we see in the Albinauric village. Between their similar skin tones, extremely unusual bodies, and the hints that they were created, rather than born, and it seems likely they were either the first Albinaurics, or the ones who earned so much hate that they effectively doomed the future of subsequent members of the Albinauric race. And there's also signs that they were at least partially demi-humans as well, at least in the sense of having animal characteristics (Probably thanks to the great serpent's input). The apostle can stretch and move his body similar to a snake, the Noble's got a snake tail and a wheel spider's rolling ability, and it's easy to see how that could translate into distaste and distrust of beastfolk. And if any Omens joined this army, and/or Morgott or Mohg didn't fight in defense of Marika's order (Remember, they'd be fighting their sister if they did), then I could easily see the omen being splashed with the same hate as the other non-humans. If they had turned traitor and helped the Gloam-eyed Queen directly, I think they would have been killed, but if they just stood aside it might have been decided they were disloyal, and were so shoved into the sewers as punishment.
Though actually, I suspect Morgott fought for the Tree, but whatever side he took, I think Mohg did "something" in this period that was the real cause for their banishment and the abuse of the Omen. One very interesting little thing to consider is that there is not a single Omen anywhere near Mohg or any place he or his cult's connected to. The only ones that even appear to be near Mohg are the ones in the sewers, and the Mohg down there seems to be a fake created by Morgott. I don't know what this "something" is, maybe it's his first connection to the Formless Mother, but yeah, that's also a possible cause for people's hatred for the Omen, one that would help explain the Omen's absence around Mohg.
Reguardless, around this time there was some event that caused Godfrey to be banished from the Lands Between and all of his soldiers to become deathless "Tarnished". As in, both connected to death in some way, and also impure or damaged. And I think that "impurity" may be because they A: Sided WITH the Gloam-Eyed Queen. B: At least partially stood aside while she was on her rampage. Or C: Were defeated, but spared, and then tainted by the Gloam Eyed Queen, the person who held the Rune of Death.
And I especially see this last being likely, partly because Godfrey was only "temporarily" banished instead of executed the way you would expect an enemy to be, partly because the holder of Destined Death would be one of the ones most capable of messing with someone's ability to die, and partly because Godfrey does seem to care for his children, so if that was at all reciprocated, I could see her choosing to spare him and his followers, and give them her "blessing". And as punishment for her Elden Lord being too weak to protect her, she exiled him and his tarnished from the Lands Between "temporarily."
"In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey. "
And there's clear reason to believe she was strong enough to have beaten him and his kin. Not only were her Godskins powerful warriors who were literally running around skinning demi-gods, and there's evidence she had the aid of the Eiglay, the Great Serpent, but there's at least two big signs she actually BURNED the tree. First, when you get close to the Erdtree you can actually see that it has a second tree inside it, one that is significantly more solid, but with a somewhat ashen appearance. And two... even before you burn the new Erdtree, there's ash EVERYWHERE in Leyndell. (And there may be another thing potentially speaking to her strength, but I'd need someone who speaks Japanese to check if there's another translation error here. The Axe of Godfrey states that "It was broken in a battle fought as leader of the Tarnished during the Long March." However, if that was supposed to be "broken in the battle that started the long march" or something along those lines, that would highly suggest that Melina's the one who broke off a chunk of his axe when she defeated him. Again, highly speculative, but it wouldn't be the first time a translation issue's occurred in Elden Ring, and that axe does look like it "might" have been burned a bit in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened.)
So yeah, Melina was a sibling to Mohg and Morgott, became the Gloam Eyed Queen and started killing Demigods, those two either didn't fight against her or sided with her and so were banished to the sewers and other undesirable places, those who lost and were corrupted were thrown outside the Lands between to wage war until they became strong enough to be proper Elden Lords for her, and Melina's body was burned by Maliketh using her own flames of the Rune of Death.
There's still a couple of things that I don't have a good explanation for her: What was the Gloam Eyed Queen's goals in her war? She clearly didn't have much in the way of limits considering she made men who walked around wearing skin. It's hard to say... but if you want to give Melina a heroic-ish backstory, maybe the hatred of Albinaurics, Omens, and others had already began, and Melina chose to fight against that. Maybe she wanted to rebuild the Crucible so that it took in everybody and everything, and mixed everything together. That would track with why the Godskin spell icon(The one that shows when spells are being cast) kind of looks like an actual crucible being surrounded by black flame. Hell, since it's strongly suggested she's taken Ranni's image now, she might just have been an Omen herself before her body was burned.
As for why she has Ranni's appearance... Hell if I know. Maybe if she was only killed partially(Maliketh did steal her own rune and use it against the person who could mess with it the most), or was able to somehow observe things from the spirit world, maybe after Ranni killed her own body with the Rune of Death, Melina was able to somehow mess with that act in some way and gain a temporary, weakened form that was based on Ranni's corpse? But if Melina only died in body, wouldn't that have meant the lands between would have had a Deathroot situation long before Godwyn? So yeah, could use some ideas here, cause I'm stumped.
Theory two: St Trina's NOT Miquella, but actually a third sister. So how can Melina be Morgott and Mohg's sister considering the whole butterfly thing? You know, the three butterflies that everyone says represent Miquella, Malenia, and Melina and so strongly suggest those three are siblings? Well, I can definitely see why people think that, I mean, let's take a look at their text here:
Aeonian Butterfly: A butterfly with withered, scarlet wings found in the swamp of Aeonia. According to myth, these butterflies were once the wings of the Goddess of Rot herself. Yeah, that's Malenia, no doubt at all!
Nascent Butterfly: An arcane butterfly with translucent wings. This butterfly appears as if it's just emerged from its cocoon for its entire life.
Yep, there we go, there's no doubt that that's Miquella.
Smoldering Butterfly: An eternally burning butterfly found near wildfires and elsewhere. Serves as the kindling for a number of items.
But this... this is a lot harder to tell much about. It "Could" be Melina... she does have some ties to fire thanks to being the Gloam Eyed Queen (Black flame, not red, but black also connects her to the fire monks), due to having her body burned in the past, and due to her burning herself at the Kiln, but I'm a little hesitant to say it's conclusive.
Especially since there IS another trio of items in game with a similar theme: The Golden, Silver, and Glintstone Fireflies. Let's take a look at their flavor text:
Golden Firefly: Firefly that gives off a golden light. Found near bodies of water close to Minor Erdtrees. The light of fireflies is believed to have an alluring magic. Golden light is considered to invite runes.
Hmmm... I could definitely see maybe a bit of Morgott here. He did lure many to his side in the capital, stayed close to the Erdtree, and gave off a golden light that he then swung right into your face.
Silver Firefly: Firefly that gives off a silvery light. Found near bodies of cold water untouched by sunlight. The light of fireflies is believed to have an alluring magic. Silver light is considered to invite riches.
A little harder to just point to and say "This is Mohg", but I think there's an argument to be had here: A lord of the underworld who never sees the light, but still has an alluring way about him. Considering the size of his following, I'd definitely say he has that much.
Glintstone Firefly: A firefly whose glowing tail has hardened into glintstone, widely found in Liurnia Lake. Alas, now that its tail is glintstone, it can no longer beguile potential mates.
Finally, we get to this one and I think it's pretty clear: This demi-god was tied to magic, similar to the Albinaurics(And women in general in From Soft games), and they're also one who's charm is now gone. Kind of like a body-less loner who never seems to be connected to or really care about a single person except for... well... a Tarnished and a Demihuman. Two races that I think might just have been tied up in the whole "Gloam Eyed Queen" situation in the past.
So yeah, I think there's a solid argument to be had that the Fireflies refer to Mohg, Morgott, and Melina, and the Aeonian and Nascent Butterflies are for Malenia and Miquella... but who's the Smoldering Butterflies for? Well... why not St Trina?
But that's Miquella! ...isn't it? Well... despite that being repeated a LOT on the internet, I've had trouble finding actual proof that those two are the same character, just some fairly solid circumstantial evidence. Which absolutely does not mean it's wrong, a lot of what I've been saying here is circumstantial evidence, but unless I've missed something, we don't have anything that says St Trina and Miquella are straight up the same person. What we do have is that they have a pair of Lilies with similar shape, the fact that St Trina CAN appear as a young boy, and that Miquella likes taking LONG naps. This does suggest the two are almost certainly connected, but I'd hesitate to say they're the same at all. Let's break these down in order.
First, we have Miquella and St Trina's Lillies: Miquella's Lily:
A delicate water lily of unalloyed gold that has started to fade and wilt. A flower signifying faith in the Haligtree. Thought to be beloved by the Empyrean Miquella in his youth.
St Trina's Lily: A pale purple water lily that is on the verge of wilting. A symbol of faith in St. Trina. Dulls the senses, preventing agitation.
Both are very similar. Both are water lillies, both are starting to wilt, both share a similar appearance, and both are signs of faith. But are they wilting because Miquella's dying, or is the wilt simply because they both share the same rot-kissed sister? It's certainly enough to say they're connected, but it can be interpreted in at least two ways, and unless I'm missing something, this does seem to be the strongest suggestion that the two are the same being.
As for St Trina appearing as a young boy... she also appears as basically everything else that's vaguely humanoid. Seriously, she's mentioned as being seen as a her, a him, a child, an adult, and if St Trina's torch is to be believed, as a cyclopes with hair waving around like as if she came from the world of Uzumaki. It's not proof against Miquella and St Trina being the same, but it's definitely not proof of them being the same.
Miquella going into hibernation is again, something that "can" suggest they are the same person, but that can also be interpreted completely differently if you assume that St Trina's another sibling. He could be going into sleep to do something as St Trina... but if they are independent he could be trying to reach out to her in a dreamworld. There's been some suggestion that maybe by going into a deep sleep Miquella could be trying to find a way to reach out to Godwyn's soul, but whether you want to take that as Miquella going on a solo-mission, or Miquella reaching out to St Trina for help or to help St Trina himself, it's definitely something that could be seen either way.
And there's actually one, more bit of evidence that might suggest that St Trina's Miquella and Malenia's older sister: the three-person statue in the Haligtree where you fight Loretta. For those who aren't aware, this statue shows a young Miquella and Malenia being embraced by an older person with long hair and indeterminate sex. It's possible this is Godwyn... but the hairstyles don't match with what little we've seen of him beyond being long and "maybe" a bit wavy. This statue involves a person with some kind of diadem or hair ornament that wraps completely around the head, but that ornament does not show up in any depiction of Godwyn we've seen so far. If Saint Trina really is a third sibling though, it absolutely makes sense for her to be there. Moreover, we do know that she has long hair with at least as much curl as what we've seen from Godwyn, and while it's hard to tell if she's wearing a diadem in them, her image on St Trina's torch has an eye right where the center of that diadem would be.
Finally, let's take one last look at the Smoldering Butterfly and see if it matches up any better with St Trina than it does with Melina...
An eternally burning butterfly found near wildfires and elsewhere. Serves as the kindling for a number of items.
Admittedly, still not a great match, but I think it's just as close to St Trina as to Melina. Near fires are places where people tend to sleep, there's an ability that uses fire to put enemies to sleep, sleep can be used as a way for beings to restore energy (AKA, kindle themselves). Meanwhile Melina's connection to the burning butterfly is that she was burned in the past, has a connection to fire, and will be burned in the future. It's very hard to say just straight out that it's one or the other.
As I suggested earlier, none of this is to say that St Trina's definitely a third sister and that the "Miquella and St Trina are the same" theory is wrong, just that there does seem to be a possible different path to go down here. But the biggest reason I've found to say that they definitely aren't sisters is that St Trina's name doesn't start with M. That's it. That's the most conclusive thing I've found so far. And I really do feel Melina's more likely to be Mohg and Morgott's sister than Malenia and Miquella's.
So yeah, that's all I've got here. I'd be interested to see where I've gotten things wrong or if anyone has anything to add. Hopefully this has been at least interesting for anyone who reads this, now I'm going to go probably see St Trina considering how late I've been up putting this together.
submitted by Complete-Law-9439 to Eldenring [link] [comments]
So I know everyone thinks Melina's the sister to Malenia and Miquella... but I think there's someone else she's more likely to be related to considering how likely it is that she's the Gloam Eyed Queen.... Why couldn't she be a sister to Mohg and Morgott? I know, she doesn't have horns, but hear me out.
So, there's a fair bit suggesting that Morgott at least, and possibly Mohg as well, weren't hated when they were first born. Godfrey at least obviously cared for Morgott way more than someone you wouldn't really see after abandoning for a lifetime in the sewers, Mohg and him act in an "upper class" manor that doesn't really fit people abandoned at birth to live in sewers, and there's some hints in general that maybe the Crucible knights, misbegotten, etc. may not have been hated when Marika first became a goddess. Hell, I think it may be possible that during the Age of Plenty, which does seem to be a different age than the Age of the Erdtree, might also have been when the Erdtree as we know it was given a different, rather lore-important name: the Crucible.
Instead, that hatred for all things non-human may have begun later on... say after someone had created the Godskins and declared war on the Gods. Think about it, the Godskins are pretty clearly Albinaurics, just better made ones than the kind we see in the Albinauric village. Between their similar skin tones, extremely unusual bodies, and the hints that they were created, rather than born, and it seems likely they were either the first Albinaurics, or the ones who earned so much hate that they effectively doomed the future of subsequent members of the Albinauric race. And there's also signs that they were at least partially demi-humans as well, at least in the sense of having animal characteristics (Probably thanks to the great serpent's input). The apostle can stretch and move his body similar to a snake, the Noble's got a snake tail and a wheel spider's rolling ability, and it's easy to see how that could translate into distaste and distrust of beastfolk. And if any Omens joined this army, and/or Morgott or Mohg didn't fight in defense of Marika's order (Remember, they'd be fighting their sister if they did), then I could easily see the omen being splashed with the same hate as the other non-humans. If they had turned traitor and helped the Gloam-eyed Queen directly, I think they would have been killed, but if they just stood aside it might have been decided they were disloyal, and were so shoved into the sewers as punishment.
Though actually, I suspect Morgott fought for the Tree, but whatever side he took, I think Mohg did "something" in this period that was the real cause for their banishment and the abuse of the Omen. One very interesting little thing to consider is that there is not a single Omen anywhere near Mohg or any place he or his cult's connected to. The only ones that even appear to be near Mohg are the ones in the sewers, and the Mohg down there seems to be a fake created by Morgott. I don't know what this "something" is, maybe it's his first connection to the Formless Mother, but yeah, that's also a possible cause for people's hatred for the Omen, one that would help explain the Omen's absence around Mohg.
Reguardless, around this time there was some event that caused Godfrey to be banished from the Lands Between and all of his soldiers to become deathless "Tarnished". As in, both connected to death in some way, and also impure or damaged. And I think that "impurity" may be because they A: Sided WITH the Gloam-Eyed Queen. B: At least partially stood aside while she was on her rampage. Or C: Were defeated, but spared, and then tainted by the Gloam Eyed Queen, the person who held the Rune of Death.
And I especially see this last being likely, partly because Godfrey was only "temporarily" banished instead of executed the way you would expect an enemy to be, partly because the holder of Destined Death would be one of the ones most capable of messing with someone's ability to die, and partly because Godfrey does seem to care for his children, so if that was at all reciprocated, I could see her choosing to spare him and his followers, and give them her "blessing". And as punishment for her Elden Lord being too weak to protect her, she exiled him and his tarnished from the Lands Between "temporarily."
"In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey. "
And there's clear reason to believe she was strong enough to have beaten him and his kin. Not only were her Godskins powerful warriors who were literally running around skinning demi-gods, and there's evidence she had the aid of the Eiglay, the Great Serpent, but there's at least two big signs she actually BURNED the tree. First, when you get close to the Erdtree you can actually see that it has a second tree inside it, one that is significantly more solid, but with a somewhat ashen appearance. And two... even before you burn the new Erdtree, there's ash EVERYWHERE in Leyndell. (And there may be another thing potentially speaking to her strength, but I'd need someone who speaks Japanese to check if there's another translation error here. The Axe of Godfrey states that "It was broken in a battle fought as leader of the Tarnished during the Long March." However, if that was supposed to be "broken in the battle that started the long march" or something along those lines, that would highly suggest that Melina's the one who broke off a chunk of his axe when she defeated him. Again, highly speculative, but it wouldn't be the first time a translation issue's occurred in Elden Ring, and that axe does look like it "might" have been burned a bit in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened.)
So yeah, Melina was a sibling to Mohg and Morgott, became the Gloam Eyed Queen and started killing Demigods, those two either didn't fight against her or sided with her and so were banished to the sewers and other undesirable places, those who lost and were corrupted were thrown outside the Lands between to wage war until they became strong enough to be proper Elden Lords for her, and Melina's body was burned by Maliketh using her own flames of the Rune of Death.
There's still a couple of things that I don't have a good explanation for her: What was the Gloam Eyed Queen's goals in her war? She clearly didn't have much in the way of limits considering she made men who walked around wearing skin. It's hard to say... but if you want to give Melina a heroic-ish backstory, maybe the hatred of Albinaurics, Omens, and others had already began, and Melina chose to fight against that. Maybe she wanted to rebuild the Crucible so that it took in everybody and everything, and mixed everything together. That would track with why the Godskin spell icon(The one that shows when spells are being cast) kind of looks like an actual crucible being surrounded by black flame. Hell, since it's strongly suggested she's taken Ranni's image now, she might just have been an Omen herself before her body was burned.
As for why she has Ranni's appearance... Hell if I know. Maybe if she was only killed partially(Maliketh did steal her own rune and use it against the person who could mess with it the most), or was able to somehow observe things from the spirit world, maybe after Ranni killed her own body with the Rune of Death, Melina was able to somehow mess with that act in some way and gain a temporary, weakened form that was based on Ranni's corpse? But if Melina only died in body, wouldn't that have meant the lands between would have had a Deathroot situation long before Godwyn? So yeah, could use some ideas here, cause I'm stumped.
Theory two: St Trina's NOT Miquella, but actually a third sister. So how can Melina be Morgott and Mohg's sister considering the whole butterfly thing? You know, the three butterflies that everyone says represent Miquella, Malenia, and Melina and so strongly suggest those three are siblings? Well, I can definitely see why people think that, I mean, let's take a look at their text here:
Aeonian Butterfly: A butterfly with withered, scarlet wings found in the swamp of Aeonia. According to myth, these butterflies were once the wings of the Goddess of Rot herself. Yeah, that's Malenia, no doubt at all!
Nascent Butterfly: An arcane butterfly with translucent wings. This butterfly appears as if it's just emerged from its cocoon for its entire life.
Yep, there we go, there's no doubt that that's Miquella.
Smoldering Butterfly: An eternally burning butterfly found near wildfires and elsewhere. Serves as the kindling for a number of items.
But this... this is a lot harder to tell much about. It "Could" be Melina... she does have some ties to fire thanks to being the Gloam Eyed Queen (Black flame, not red, but black also connects her to the fire monks), due to having her body burned in the past, and due to her burning herself at the Kiln, but I'm a little hesitant to say it's conclusive.
Especially since there IS another trio of items in game with a similar theme: The Golden, Silver, and Glintstone Fireflies. Let's take a look at their flavor text:
Golden Firefly: Firefly that gives off a golden light. Found near bodies of water close to Minor Erdtrees. The light of fireflies is believed to have an alluring magic. Golden light is considered to invite runes.
Hmmm... I could definitely see maybe a bit of Morgott here. He did lure many to his side in the capital, stayed close to the Erdtree, and gave off a golden light that he then swung right into your face.
Silver Firefly: Firefly that gives off a silvery light. Found near bodies of cold water untouched by sunlight. The light of fireflies is believed to have an alluring magic. Silver light is considered to invite riches.
A little harder to just point to and say "This is Mohg", but I think there's an argument to be had here: A lord of the underworld who never sees the light, but still has an alluring way about him. Considering the size of his following, I'd definitely say he has that much.
Glintstone Firefly: A firefly whose glowing tail has hardened into glintstone, widely found in Liurnia Lake. Alas, now that its tail is glintstone, it can no longer beguile potential mates.
Finally, we get to this one and I think it's pretty clear: This demi-god was tied to magic, similar to the Albinaurics(And women in general in From Soft games), and they're also one who's charm is now gone. Kind of like a body-less loner who never seems to be connected to or really care about a single person except for... well... a Tarnished and a Demihuman. Two races that I think might just have been tied up in the whole "Gloam Eyed Queen" situation in the past.
So yeah, I think there's a solid argument to be had that the Fireflies refer to Mohg, Morgott, and Melina, and the Aeonian and Nascent Butterflies are for Malenia and Miquella... but who's the Smoldering Butterflies for? Well... why not St Trina?
But that's Miquella! ...isn't it? Well... despite that being repeated a LOT on the internet, I've had trouble finding actual proof that those two are the same character, just some fairly solid circumstantial evidence. Which absolutely does not mean it's wrong, a lot of what I've been saying here is circumstantial evidence, but unless I've missed something, we don't have anything that says St Trina and Miquella are straight up the same person. What we do have is that they have a pair of Lilies with similar shape, the fact that St Trina CAN appear as a young boy, and that Miquella likes taking LONG naps. This does suggest the two are almost certainly connected, but I'd hesitate to say they're the same at all. Let's break these down in order.
First, we have Miquella and St Trina's Lillies: Miquella's Lily:
A delicate water lily of unalloyed gold that has started to fade and wilt. A flower signifying faith in the Haligtree. Thought to be beloved by the Empyrean Miquella in his youth.
St Trina's Lily: A pale purple water lily that is on the verge of wilting. A symbol of faith in St. Trina. Dulls the senses, preventing agitation.
Both are very similar. Both are water lillies, both are starting to wilt, both share a similar appearance, and both are signs of faith. But are they wilting because Miquella's dying, or is the wilt simply because they both share the same rot-kissed sister? It's certainly enough to say they're connected, but it can be interpreted in at least two ways, and unless I'm missing something, this does seem to be the strongest suggestion that the two are the same being.
As for St Trina appearing as a young boy... she also appears as basically everything else that's vaguely humanoid. Seriously, she's mentioned as being seen as a her, a him, a child, an adult, and if St Trina's torch is to be believed, as a cyclopes with hair waving around like as if she came from the world of Uzumaki. It's not proof against Miquella and St Trina being the same, but it's definitely not proof of them being the same.
Miquella going into hibernation is again, something that "can" suggest they are the same person, but that can also be interpreted completely differently if you assume that St Trina's another sibling. He could be going into sleep to do something as St Trina... but if they are independent he could be trying to reach out to her in a dreamworld. There's been some suggestion that maybe by going into a deep sleep Miquella could be trying to find a way to reach out to Godwyn's soul, but whether you want to take that as Miquella going on a solo-mission, or Miquella reaching out to St Trina for help or to help St Trina himself, it's definitely something that could be seen either way.
And there's actually one, more bit of evidence that might suggest that St Trina's Miquella and Malenia's older sister: the three-person statue in the Haligtree where you fight Loretta. For those who aren't aware, this statue shows a young Miquella and Malenia being embraced by an older person with long hair and indeterminate sex. It's possible this is Godwyn... but the hairstyles don't match with what little we've seen of him beyond being long and "maybe" a bit wavy. This statue involves a person with some kind of diadem or hair ornament that wraps completely around the head, but that ornament does not show up in any depiction of Godwyn we've seen so far. If Saint Trina really is a third sibling though, it absolutely makes sense for her to be there. Moreover, we do know that she has long hair with at least as much curl as what we've seen from Godwyn, and while it's hard to tell if she's wearing a diadem in them, her image on St Trina's torch has an eye right where the center of that diadem would be.
Finally, let's take one last look at the Smoldering Butterfly and see if it matches up any better with St Trina than it does with Melina...
An eternally burning butterfly found near wildfires and elsewhere. Serves as the kindling for a number of items.
Admittedly, still not a great match, but I think it's just as close to St Trina as to Melina. Near fires are places where people tend to sleep, there's an ability that uses fire to put enemies to sleep, sleep can be used as a way for beings to restore energy (AKA, kindle themselves). Meanwhile Melina's connection to the burning butterfly is that she was burned in the past, has a connection to fire, and will be burned in the future. It's very hard to say just straight out that it's one or the other.
As I suggested earlier, none of this is to say that St Trina's definitely a third sister and that the "Miquella and St Trina are the same" theory is wrong, just that there does seem to be a possible different path to go down here. But the biggest reason I've found to say that they definitely aren't sisters is that St Trina's name doesn't start with M. That's it. That's the most conclusive thing I've found so far. And I really do feel Melina's more likely to be Mohg and Morgott's sister than Malenia and Miquella's.
So yeah, that's all I've got here. I'd be interested to see where I've gotten things wrong or if anyone has anything to add. Hopefully this has been at least interesting for anyone who reads this, now I'm going to go probably see St Trina considering how late I've been up putting this together.